I know it sounds like a stupid question, but you wouldn't believe the amount of people who argue about this! Personally, I'm on the colour side, otherwise all my clothes are colourless lol thought it would be an amusing debating topic possibly not a long lasting one, but amusing all the same.

Shades. Didnt you take art?

Black is technically the presence of all colours, and white the absense of them. White reflects all colours, black absorbs them. According to my many many many art classes .


I've heard many goths say they're embracing life by absorbing it through their black clothes . It makes sense, though they cant just live through osmosis .

Anyway, sorry, but I think it's foolish to say they're colours just because you don't want to feel plain .

This is an interesting topic though. Someone tweet about it .

lol i was kidding
I'm a goth, but osmosis isn't really my thing...
loads of people seem to argue though. I don't really get it...
i mean, what does it matter?

It matters. Someone is WRONG on the internet.

[will insert funny picture about that here later when I'm not using a proxy]

No seriously. It REALLY annoys me when people are like "I believe this" and it's wrong... I mean, especially if they know it's wrong. I'm speaking education wise, the spiritual beliefs are each to their own.

Why would you do that to yourself? I'd rather know the right way than a wrong way, mind you, I won't part from my "wrong way" until I am 100% sure of disabuse. If you're just trying to get me to follow a different way for what ever reason, I want a bloody good reason.

On THIS subject, you're being just plain ignorant if you argue the wrong way (sorry, but that's how I feel). It's already been proven scientifically and unless you can refute it scientifically then there's no argument on your side .

okay sorry.
it was amusing, you ruined it...
jeez...
i couldnt care either way, and im sure your right.
happy?

No, frankly . I was stating my opinion, and I do think it's an amusing topic. You asked why it even matters, and I told you why it would matter to me. Why don't you tell me to gtfo my high horse and worry about my own shit or something? Tell me it doesnt matter and I'm wasting energy (which I need to power my blonde brain ). Argue your point of view.....don't just give up .

If you think they're colours prove me wrong, don't back down. Debates are supposed to make you think and help you grow, whether you "win" or "lose" (which I don't really believe in - you can win an argument temporarily, but even the "loser" gets something out of it).

it doesnt really matter.
delete the topic.

Been told Lunar! lols. Frankly there shades everyone knows this even though many argue it the other way. Your not a goth and if you are, your the happiest goth i've ever met. . You just like the colour black. 

lol I agree that they are shades really, I was kidding before.
Bunny over reacted and scared me

I didnt mean to scare you Lunar . I don't want you to be afraid to stand up to me. I may be an admin but I can be wrong and make mistakes too! I'm only human, and I can be bitchy and opinionated like anyone else. I'm also not ban-happy - I'd never ban someone for being against me, or debating against me, or even calling me out or what ever. I'd probably not ban you for attacking me either - maybe post mod you (nothing huge, just wait for me to approve your posts).

If you feel bad for wearing only black or white, then take a look at me. I pretty much only where grayscale (white, gray and black). My mum has tried SO many times to get me to wear colour, but she's lucky if she gets me into blue or green . Blue being jeans mostly. I LOVE colour....I just don't always wear it (and when I do, I'm a RAINBOW!! Okay, that was a little too enthusiastic).

its okay Bunny
i was just curious what people thought, i have no opinion either way.
now i feel stupid for posting the topic...
doesnt matter.
i only wear black lol except one hoodie that has red on
lol

I, unfortunately, do not have the physical capability of SEEING colors.  I'm missing a neurochemical transmitter that transmits the information from my eyes to my brain.  It affects how I see things.  Basically it's like watching black and white movies all the time.

Now, I tell you, all the years of guessing has me pretty good at it, so much so that I can pass all of the standard colorblindness tests, and of course the obligatory remark from everyone I tell this to "Hey, what color is this [thing]"...

Here's my point perception is everything.  I can say that  this guy is blue and this guy is pink, and you could say that those are irrefutable truths, but to be honest, I only see them as two gray dudes, so your irrefutable truths are now up to debate, because in my world, blue and pink don't exist.  They may be verifiable to your senses, but not to mine.  I have to "believe" you on that one.

The same goes for pretty much everything from religion to politics to colors of the rainbow.  While I agree with Bunny that there are some narrow minded people out there, it has more to do with perception and trust than anything else.

Cheers,
~BBM

Lunar, don't feel stupid. I'm sorry, I didnt mean to make you feel like that.

BBM (BraveBlueMice) That's a good point of view. Never considered that.

I'll just interject here and point out that black and white dont really exist at all, at least as far as nature is concerned. Things that look black are usually a very dark brown, green, purple etc. And White things are very pale versions of colours.
The 'colours' we consider pure white and black are manufactured and not natural at all.

Bunny (12:16pm Wed, May 20, 2009)

Shades. Didnt you take art?

Black is technically the presence of all colours, and white the absense of them. White reflects all colours, black absorbs them. According to my many many many art classes .

Unless you're dealing with light.  Then white is the presence of all colours and black is the absence of all colours.

Fun fact: The color of objects is determined by the light they absorb.  But the light they absorb is not the color they appear.  They instead appear the complementary color of the light they absorb.  The sky absorbs orange light; it appears blue.  Grass absorbs red light; it appears green. 

Interesting Niffah, never considered that!

LtStorm (02:12am Thu, May 21, 2009)

Bunny (12:16pm Wed, May 20, 2009)

Shades. Didnt you take art?

Black is technically the presence of all colours, and white the absense of them. White reflects all colours, black absorbs them. According to my many many many art classes .

Unless you're dealing with light.  Then white is the presence of all colours and black is the absence of all colours.

Yup . I forgot to mention that.

See, it got interesting eventually lol
and by the way, I didn't take art. Can't draw...
I work in a tattooist and people are always like "Do you do the tattoos?" and I'm like "Nah I can't draw." And it always seems to shock them... hehe

Anyone can draw! You just gotta practice. Then again you could be the "3D" person, who would be better at sculpture. Try clay/origami .

ooh that sounds like fun
but I have no way of getting hold of clay and don't know how to do origami lol
One of the tattooists who works there, and is only a year older than me, keeps telling me to practice, but I just get frustrated and throw pencils around hehe

Buy polymer clay.. you can cook it without needing a kiln.

Haffs idea is good, you can make beads!

And just cause you don't know how to do it, doesnt mean you cant go borrow a book from the library and give it a go . We want pics .

okay
and I will look for that clay stuff, lol
to origami!

niffah (01:00am Thu, May 21, 2009)

I'll just interject here and point out that black and white dont really exist at all, at least as far as nature is concerned. Things that look black are usually a very dark brown, green, purple etc. And White things are very pale versions of colours.
The 'colours' we consider pure white and black are manufactured and not natural at all.

And why is that? Unless you want to argue that only a complete absence of light is "real" black, space looks pretty black and natural to me.

Lilienthal (05:18pm Fri, May 22, 2009)

niffah (01:00am Thu, May 21, 2009)

I'll just interject here and point out that black and white dont really exist at all, at least as far as nature is concerned. Things that look black are usually a very dark brown, green, purple etc. And White things are very pale versions of colours.
The 'colours' we consider pure white and black are manufactured and not natural at all.

And why is that? Unless you want to argue that only a complete absence of light is "real" black, space looks pretty black and natural to me.

Really? Space looks blue and purple to me, with a touch of green and brown.

niffah (09:15pm Fri, May 22, 2009)

Really? Space looks blue and purple to me, with a touch of green and brown.

No, it isn't. Since there is nothing in space that light can reflect off, it's general appearance is black. Unless your eyes can detect cosmic background radiation (with a 1.9 mm wavelength that falls out of the visible spectrum from 380 to 750 nm), which would make you a freak of nature, it will still appear as black when viewed through purely optical means.

And you'd have to actually be in space to correctly "see" it's colour, so unless you're an astronaut - who would know that space is in fact black - you have no basis for saying it's blue-purple-green-brown.

niffah (09:15pm Fri, May 22, 2009)

Lilienthal (05:18pm Fri, May 22, 2009)

niffah (01:00am Thu, May 21, 2009)

Lilienthal (03:18am Sat, May 23, 2009)

I'll just interject here and point out that black and white dont really exist at all, at least as far as nature is concerned. Things that look black are usually a very dark brown, green, purple etc. And White things are very pale versions of colours.
The 'colours' we consider pure white and black are manufactured and not natural at all.

And why is that? Unless you want to argue that only a complete absence of light is "real" black, space looks pretty black and natural to me.

Really? Space looks blue and purple to me, with a touch of green and brown.

No, it isn't. Since there is nothing in space that light can reflect off, it's general appearance is black. Unless your eyes can detect cosmic background radiation (with a 1.9 mm wavelength that falls out of the visible spectrum from 380 to 750 nm), which would make you a freak of nature, it will still appear as black when viewed through purely optical means.

And you'd have to actually be in space to correctly "see" it's colour, so unless you're an astronaut - who would know that space is in fact black - you have no basis for saying it's blue-purple-green-brown.

Wrong, wrong, very wrong, what are you talking about? And wrong. 

Space is beige.  If you take an average of all visible light, it comes out to a muted beige.

We're going to need to start citing these facts to legit websites guys

LtStorm (11:45am Sat, May 23, 2009)

Space is beige.  If you take an average of all visible light, it comes out to a muted beige.

If you are referring to this, that research seems to have taken an average wavelength of all objects in space as well, which is not what I'm referring to.

The same for you Bunny. What you have posted are images of stars and nebulae which do have a distinct colour. But that isn't what I meant with the term space. It's the same as proving that the sky is white with pictures of clouds.

Allow me to retort:
http://laughingman.eu/img/space1
http://laughingman.eu/img/space2
http://laughingman.eu/img/space3
http://laughingman.eu/img/space4


Sure, if you zoom in far enough you'll pick up light refracted by stars and nebulae, but the colour of space, both in the "outer space" and the scientific meaning does not fall within the visible spectrum, and I'll refer to it as being black.


Edit: And do something about those pictures Bunny, they're unsightly.

Never will I remove such AWESOME pictures!!!


No seriously, don't make me bust out with photoshop and prove to you it's #000000 (black) .

Bunny (01:32pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

Never will I remove such AWESOME pictures!!!

There's no need to remove them, just link to them like I did; they're clogging up my browser. And those aren't half as awesome as some of the high-res hubble snapshots.

Bunny (01:32pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

No seriously, don't make me bust out with photoshop and prove to you it's #000000 (black) .

So you're agreeing with me now?

Lilienthal (02:16pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

Bunny (01:32pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

No seriously, don't make me bust out with photoshop and prove to you it's #000000 (black) .

So you're agreeing with me now?

Sure, I got mixed up and thought you called it beige . It was storm  .

It's black till you fuck with galazies, etc .

Ah, fair enough. What did you mean with this though?

Bunny (12:02pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

We're going to need to start citing these facts to legit websites guys

As in I want to see where you know this stuff from. Legit websites: .gov is like the top...Anything you could put on a college paper as a source is legit (aka, no wikipedia, though that helps!)

Bunny (05:02pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

As in I want to see where you know this stuff from. Legit websites: .gov is like the top...Anything you could put on a college paper as a source is legit (aka, no wikipedia, though that helps!)

Well, the part about space appearing black I reasoned from physics classes back in high school as well as personal study. I admit that I went to wikipedia to find the wavelength of the CMBR. If I wanted to find a reputable source for that number for use in scientific paper, I'd likely wouldn't need to since it seems to be an accepted value and I could calculate it myself, as is done here, and here. (Since I'm not actually very good at physics or astronomy, I have no idea how to actually do that though.) I suppose the Planck Mission is a good enough source though, given how they have a spacecraft up there to measure just this. (get the Blue Book)

Lilienthal (12:37pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

LtStorm (11:45am Sat, May 23, 2009)

Space is beige.  If you take an average of all visible light, it comes out to a muted beige.

If you are referring to this, that research seems to have taken an average wavelength of all objects in space as well, which is not what I'm referring to.

The same for you Bunny. What you have posted are images of stars and nebulae which do have a distinct colour. But that isn't what I meant with the term space. It's the same as proving that the sky is white with pictures of clouds.

Allow me to retort:
http://laughingman.eu/img/space1
http://laughingman.eu/img/space2
http://laughingman.eu/img/space3
http://laughingman.eu/img/space4


Sure, if you zoom in far enough you'll pick up light refracted by stars and nebulae, but the colour of space, both in the "outer space" and the scientific meaning does not fall within the visible spectrum, and I'll refer to it as being black.


Edit: And do something about those pictures Bunny, they're unsightly.

Oh, okay.  You're throwing yourself on the way the physics of light work where faint light is drowned out by nearby bright light.  Cameras fall prey to this, the human eye does so even more easily.  That, however, requires you to be in a select few parts of the universe to see space as black--i.e. right next to a bright object of some description.  If you're out in empty space away from them, it's not black.

But you're forgetting a major point.  When it comes to light, black isn't a color.  It's an absence.  There is no point in the universe you can go to and find an absence of light.  The universe is flooded with light of all the stars and star-born creations out there.  Almost all of them emitting some sort of visible light.  If you average all of that light together, it comes out to a near white--depending on the lighting conditions (white point) you view it from.  Basing it on the assumption you look up at a night sky, implying it's currently dark and your eyes are adjusted as such, space would appear a beige color.

A great rundown of how this works is here at the John Hopkins University website;

http://www.pha.jhu.edu/~kgb/cosspec/

Bunny (02:46pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

Lilienthal (02:16pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

Bunny (01:32pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

No seriously, don't make me bust out with photoshop and prove to you it's #000000 (black) .

So you're agreeing with me now?

Sure, I got mixed up and thought you called it beige . It was storm  .

It's black till you fuck with galazies, etc .

And you also are falling into the silly anthropocentric flaw of "It looks black when I look up at it in my backyard, surrounded by artificial illumination that drowns out all but the brightest of stars!" 

The sky can't be black; that would require there be no stars, nebulae, galaxies, or other such things out there.  Black is a total absence of light. 

Those pics Lilitu linked to, and to a lesser extent the ones you linked to, are demonstrating the same effect that you get from shining a bright light in your face.  The rest of the room will look darker because that light focused on your eyes is drowning out the other light illuminating the room.

LtStorm (07:05pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

And you also are falling into the silly anthropocentric flaw of "It looks black when I look up at it in my backyard, surrounded by artificial illumination that drowns out all but the brightest of stars!" 

I take ultimate offence to THAT Mr. City Dweller!!!!

I was brought up in the bush, HOURS away from town. It was pitch black at night mostly and the stars were fucking awesome . Though, when the moon was full it wasnt that black and dark, the moon was so bright out there it could literally light the night enough to go walking around barefoot and not kill yourself (unless you're me and have a habit of finding the ONLY weak spot in the ground and fall into a rusty car...).

Bunny (07:48pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

LtStorm (07:05pm Sat, May 23, 2009)

And you also are falling into the silly anthropocentric flaw of "It looks black when I look up at it in my backyard, surrounded by artificial illumination that drowns out all but the brightest of stars!" 

I take ultimate offence to THAT Mr. City Dweller!!!!

I was brought up in the bush, HOURS away from town. It was pitch black at night mostly and the stars were fucking awesome . Though, when the moon was full it wasnt that black and dark, the moon was so bright out there it could literally light the night enough to go walking around barefoot and not kill yourself (unless you're me and have a habit of finding the ONLY weak spot in the ground and fall into a rusty car...).

* Bunny misses the bush *

Yes, well, at any rate, it's still an anthropocentric view, as the atmosphere itself still blots out much of the incoming light.

So then it's down to science or perception .

It's going to be funny telling my friends that space is "beige". God I love weird looks .

Hmm, I suppose you have point. I'd still like to see a picture of the beige nothingness that is space though.

It also seems that we've all been using quite a few different interpretations of the "colour of space."

So:

- Outer space itself has no colour, which I describe as black, since it has no significant amount of matter to reflect light.

- Outer space viewed through optical equipment (lenses, the human eye, ...) appears black (until I see an actual picture of beige space without foreign bodies in it I'm going to follow this)

- By measuring the average wavelengths of visible light emitted from stars, nebulae et cetera we arrive at a beige colour. What I'd like to know is how much candela we're talking about here.


What I've sort of lost track of by now however, is my original post in this topic, in reply to niffah's claim:

niffah (01:00am Thu, May 21, 2009)

I'll just interject here and point out that black and white dont really exist at all, at least as far as nature is concerned. Things that look black are usually a very dark brown, green, purple etc. And White things are very pale versions of colours.
The 'colours' we consider pure white and black are manufactured and not natural at all.

I suppose outer space in general was a bad example of a "natural example" that is completely black. I'd still like to know what he meant by this though, and I'll offer a black hole as a natural phenomenon that is completely and utterly black, since it absorbs all light. Thoughts?

Ok.. I may have been a little short sighted in my comment, as I was referring to earth bound nature..not outer space. When I was referring to 'pure white and black' I was speaking from the point of view of an artist - black paint is manufactured..you dont find the pigments for it naturally..not even charcoal is really 'black'.
Plus I can only go on what I was taught during school..maybe science has found a naturally occurring 'black' black, or 'white' white. I guess the difference I am looking at is that I am not talking about light or the absence of it.. I'm talking about tangible objects.
And Im a female

niffah (09:22am Sun, May 24, 2009)

Ok.. I may have been a little short sighted in my comment, as I was referring to earth bound nature..not outer space. When I was referring to 'pure white and black' I was speaking from the point of view of an artist - black paint is manufactured..you dont find the pigments for it naturally..not even charcoal is really 'black'.
Plus I can only go on what I was taught during school..maybe science has found a naturally occurring 'black' black, or 'white' white. I guess the difference I am looking at is that I am not talking about light or the absence of it.. I'm talking about tangible objects.

The absence of reflected light is exactly what makes black black. There are also dozens of "real blacks" in nature. The way you're putting it, only a black hole would match your colour requirements, except that it's not that tangible.

There are plenty of "real" blacks: some kinds of charcoal, soot, some dark kinds of ebony, et cetera. Black onyx is also a prime example:
http://www.beadsonly.com.au/images/BlackOnyx.gif

niffah (09:22am Sun, May 24, 2009)

And Im a female

Pff, female, shemale; tomato, tomahto.

That doesnt look like pure black to me Lilienthal..

Bunny (10:25am Sun, May 24, 2009)

That doesnt look like pure black to me Lilienthal..

Christ, I give up on this crap.

Wait, I have a question.


If space is beige when we average out the light, that's like saying that my room is brown when the light averages. What colour is it where there's nothing? Where it's just plain space?

Bunny (04:18pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

Wait, I have a question.


If space is beige when we average out the light, that's like saying that my room is brown when the light averages. What colour is it where there's nothing? Where it's just plain space?

Black.  My point was that 'black' doesn't exist naturally in space.  Outer space is flooded with light.

Black holes arguably create it due to their event horizons, but you'll never see a black hole, just at best its silhouette against the stars around it.  Because it emits and reflects no light.

It still freaks me out that they just hang there... you can go behind them right?

How can you go behind a hole? That doesnt make any sense, there has to be something there to make the hole...

Bunny (09:21pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

It still freaks me out that they just hang there... you can go behind them right?

How can you go behind a hole? That doesnt make any sense, there has to be something there to make the hole...

...They aren't actually holes.  They're collapsed stars.  Matter compacted down to the point that all of its constituent particles are sitting in the same space in a singularity.  There's a radius, specifically the Schwarzschild radius, also known as the "event horizon" where the gravity of the collapsed star becomes so strong that even light can't escape it.  That's what makes it appear black, as it doesn't reflect any light whatsoever.  There are effects, such as Hawking radiation, where it emits various wavelengths of light.  But it reflects none.  Of course, if it's emitting Hawking radiation it's likely enshrouded in gas and out of sight anyway.

It still freaks me out that nothing is holding planets up - visibly.....what about space?!




But seriously, space is black when it's just space. Just because you can average light doesnt mean it is that colour - besides, we cannot truly measure space (surely?) so how do we know what we're averaging it against. We don't even know how many light emitting things are out there yet...

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

It still freaks me out that nothing is holding planets up - visibly.....what about space?!

Anthropocentric viewpoint again.  Since space itself has no gravity, you must recall that there's no need to hold things floating through it up.   

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

* Bunny suddenly feels very small and vulnerable and hopes the planet doesnt suddenly "drop" *

You wouldn't notice if it did.  Well, until the Sun grew tiny and the planet grew cold. 

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

But seriously, space is black when it's just space.

Right, but that's an empty vacuum.  Space is not an empty vacuum.  There's lots of things flying around it, especially energy-wise.  Totally empty vacuums don't naturally exist.

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

Just because you can average light doesnt mean it is that colour - besides, we cannot truly measure space (surely?)

What?  Measure what about space accurately?

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

so how do we know what we're averaging it against. We don't even know how many light emitting things are out there yet...

...Averaging it against?  What do you mean "averaging it against"?  While we don't know how many light emitting sources there are out there, nor have we seen all of them, we know the average distribution of the ones we have seen, and that's what was taken as the average.  Unless the parts of space we haven't seen deviate drastically from what we expect (and I do mean drastically), there's no reason to expect the average color of the universe to change significantly from beige.  It'd require we found a source of a single, or couple, of colors of light that drastically outweighed that of the trillions of the stars we've already seen. 

LtStorm (10:50pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

It still freaks me out that nothing is holding planets up - visibly.....what about space?!

Anthropocentric viewpoint again.  Since space itself has no gravity, you must recall that there's no need to hold things floating through it up.   

That's even scarier..... have you seen balloons just EXPLODE MID AIR?! Not to mention that's clear sky, just pressure......space has huge ROCKS and stuff whizzing around it!

Quote

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

* Bunny suddenly feels very small and vulnerable and hopes the planet doesnt suddenly "drop" *

You wouldn't notice if it did.  Well, until the Sun grew tiny and the planet grew cold. 

Hopefully too many G's for my body .

Quote

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

But seriously, space is black when it's just space.

Right, but that's an empty vacuum.  Space is not an empty vacuum.  There's lots of things flying around it, especially energy-wise.  Totally empty vacuums don't naturally exist.

Wait, that's like me saying the sky IS white, because hell, it isnt empty either

Quote

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

Just because you can average light doesnt mean it is that colour - besides, we cannot truly measure space (surely?)

What?  Measure what about space accurately?

Its expanse. We can't measure infinity. Therefore we can't ACCURATELY measure how full of light it really is to get a colour.

Quote

Bunny (10:33pm Sun, May 24, 2009)

so how do we know what we're averaging it against. We don't even know how many light emitting things are out there yet...

...Averaging it against?  What do you mean "averaging it against"?  While we don't know how many light emitting sources there are out there, nor have we seen all of them, we know the average distribution of the ones we have seen, and that's what was taken as the average.  Unless the parts of space we haven't seen deviate drastically from what we expect (and I do mean drastically), there's no reason to expect the average color of the universe to change significantly from beige.  It'd require we found a source of a single, or couple, of colors of light that drastically outweighed that of the trillions of the stars we've already seen. 

There could be some reeeeeally empty or overcrowded parts out there...

Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

That's even scarier..... have you seen balloons just EXPLODE MID AIR?! Not to mention that's clear sky, just pressure......space has huge ROCKS and stuff whizzing around it!

...Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Balloons are held together by the surface tension of the material they're made out of, and inflated by an overpressure inside of it that is greater than that of the atmosphere surrounding them.  Earth's atmosphere is adhered to it by gravity.  The entire planet is a lesson in density.  The most dense portions (rocks, other minerals) sit at the bottom, with the next most dense (water) resting on top of it, and the least dense (air) sitting on top of that.  Of course, on such a large scale there are forces that churn these up on local settings, but overall it holds true.

And yes, there are plenty of huge rocks whizzing about through space.  But most that were going to hit the Earth have already done so at some point in its 4.6 billion history.  We've made enough revolutions around Sol at this point that we've vacuumed up most of the debris that'd get in our way.

Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

Hopefully too many G's for my body .

Well, there might be, as it'd take a total suspension of the Laws of Physics for the Earth to drop suddenly.

Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

Wait, that's like me saying the sky IS white, because hell, it isnt empty either

But the sky is blue.  For most of the day.  Because it absorbs orange light, and thus appears as the complementary color of orange, which is blue.  It appears as pink/orange/red in the morning and evening because of the sharp angle the sun is hitting it at relative to us, but that's getting deeper into optics.  Either way, the sky isn't white.  Its constituents appear as blue primarily.

Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

Its expanse. We can't measure infinity. Therefore we can't ACCURATELY measure how full of light it really is to get a colour.

Current theory holds that the universe isn't infinite.  While we can't "accurately" measure it, we can come up with a very good approximation based on what we know thus far about the universe.  If we do stumble upon something that drastically changes this approximation, then, hey, we learned something new.

Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

There could be some reeeeeally empty or overcrowded parts out there...

Doesn't matter how much empty space there is.  As that's...empty space, and isn't generating any light, it doesn't contribute to the color of the universe, other than I guess dulling the luminosity if you want to consider that too.  Either way, there's already a name for overcrowded parts of the universe; galaxies.

What was this debate about again?

LtStorm (03:03am Mon, May 25, 2009)

...Are you being intentionally obtuse?

Intentioanlly obtuse, sorry lol.
I know how balloons are and etc, I'm good.


But the rocks and stuff I was serious about. Didnt we have some sort of meteor shower or two earlier in the year? I dunno how big those rocks are, but it is scary to think that sometime there could be one big enough to really take us out.

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Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

Its expanse. We can't measure infinity. Therefore we can't ACCURATELY measure how full of light it really is to get a colour.

Current theory holds that the universe isn't infinite.  While we can't "accurately" measure it, we can come up with a very good approximation based on what we know thus far about the universe.  If we do stumble upon something that drastically changes this approximation, then, hey, we learned something new.

Sort of like how we measured density and population in biology? Cut out a square and counted the dots so to speak? I don't know how accurate that is, to be honest.

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Bunny (12:21am Mon, May 25, 2009)

There could be some reeeeeally empty or overcrowded parts out there...

Doesn't matter how much empty space there is.  As that's...empty space, and isn't generating any light, it doesn't contribute to the color of the universe, other than I guess dulling the luminosity if you want to consider that too.  Either way, there's already a name for overcrowded parts of the universe; galaxies.

What about the asteroid belt? Isnt that all overcrowded with rock?

Look what I found:

It's beige

Lilienthal (09:36am Mon, May 25, 2009)

What was this debate about again?

Lol I could split it

I am on the side of black and white You can go all white or all black and you standout. Even in art I prefer black and white over colors. Black and white are just very, very bold to me. 

I guess it depends on whether you're talking about light or pigmentation (like paints or crayons).

If we're talking about light, white is all the colors. We can't say the same about paints being all the colors mixed in and turning white. In light, it's only "white" and "lack of parts of white". Pigmentation treats both as colors, though. White and black mix and behave just like any pigmented medium, so to say "it's a shade, not a color" kind of comes off as a little pedantic.

But I say...if you can see it, name a visual aspect like that, then yes it is a color. Black is a color. White is a color.

It's sort of like insisting that cold doesn't exist, because cold is the absence of heat. Somebody who's freezing to death should have a right to say that it's cold.

Or asking, "What's your favorite flavor of ice cream? Frozen cream doesn't count because it's not flavored." If you can taste it, that's a flavor.

Why bother asking if you're just going to put limitations on what people can say, and how they express their experience? Do you want to get to know somebody better, or not? Is this just like a poll or a census for research and you can't abide anybody introducing variables in a number-crunching task? That last bit, I can understand.

In any art class you will ever have, or take on any level of schooling, the teacher will tell you that black is a shade and white is a tint.  Outside of the art world I'm not sure it much matters because people will continue to call them both colors.

I like to do things the old fashioned way and mix my own colors when I paint. I have the Primary colors and a tin of black and white for lightening the colour or darkening it.

Anyhoo, that's my twopence worth on the subject.

hoodoowytch (03:25pm Fri, Jun 20, 2014)

In any art class you will ever have, or take on any level of schooling, the teacher will tell you that black is a shade and white is a tint.  Outside of the art world I'm not sure it much matters because people will continue to call them both colors.

I like to do things the old fashioned way and mix my own colors when I paint. I have the Primary colors and a tin of black and white for lightening the colour or darkening it.

Anyhoo, that's my twopence worth on the subject.

Ooh, actually, I read somewhere that even considering pigments rather than light, we've been doing primaries wrong all along. The real primary colors aren't red, blue, and yellow. They're magenta, cyan, and yellow.

I suppose the casual color-seer would consider magenta just another sort of red and cyan just another sort of blue, but apparently they create much purer colors when mixed than what we've been taught in kindergarten.

In the language of computer programming, I just adore hex codes. They behave exactly like light, with higher values closer to white and lower values closer to less light, that is--black. There are six digits in a hex color code. Once I figured out that the six digits stood for RGB with two digits for R, two digits for G, and two digits for B (Red, Green, and Blue, the sections of a rainbow!) and that the first two stood for magenta and yellow (which make red), the second two stood for yellow and cyan (which make green) and the third two stand for cyan and magenta (which make blue), then it all became much easier. Whoever thought the hex code system up was really cool, because it's become very intuitive.

And, on a website, I'd count white and black as colors because the coding for those has to be present in the program that's running.

Wow, Bravebluemice, I have never heard of anyone who couldn't see ANY colours. That has to suck. 

I can't imagine seeing the world in only black and white. That just sounds so weird. I bet learning your colors in school was real bitch. The closest I can come to imagining such a thing is to watch any of those old black and white movies or TV shows. 

Kind of sad really...although I suppose gory stuff doesn't look quite as bad. I could see where lack of ability to see or distinguish color could make a job in forensics a little less gruesome.