So, the topic about founding a religion has me wondering.  Who here is a believer in homeopathy/"natural" medicine?  Why are you a believer in it? 

Or are you the opposite; a skeptic of it?  Do you believe it just doesn't work?  Do you believe it's potentially deadly to those who use it?  How do you feel about it?

I'm curious, let's hear what people think.

My grandmother is a REAL stickler for it, and shoves everything my way. She's had me on St. Johns Wort for depression for weeks now....and it hasnt helped me at all. I feel the same way.

She's had me on other stuff too.....I think it's more of a placebo effect if anything. It works if you believe it does.

My mum had me on that stuff too! She had me on some "natural weight loss" pills too....but they messed with my insulin and I was falling asleep after being awake 4 hours . It was horrible...

Kimberley (05:10pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

My grandmother is a REAL stickler for it, and shoves everything my way. She's had me on St. Johns Wort for depression for weeks now....and it hasnt helped me at all. I feel the same way.

She's had me on other stuff too.....I think it's more of a placebo effect if anything. It works if you believe it does.

Yeah, pretty much.  If you're chronically depressed, or clinically depressed, you need to see a psychiatrist for help.  Which may or may not involve actual medication, but if it does will at least have you on an actual anti-depressant rather than a holistic remedy.

Bunny (05:18pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

My mum had me on that stuff too! She had me on some "natural weight loss" pills too....but they messed with my insulin and I was falling asleep after being awake 4 hours . It was horrible...

This is pretty much exactly why "natural" medicine can be detrimental to your health.  There's very little consideration of pharmacokinetic interactions it could have with other medicines you're currently taking, which is only hurt more by the fact it's usually not prescribed by actual licensed doctors.  No, I don't count practitioners of "natural" medicine as licensed doctors.

I practice some naturaly medicine, but only in addition to doctor's medicine or what you are taking at the moment. Nothing I use is particularly complicated though, so it has not effect on other midicines. Though, a lot of my healing remedies also include some natural wiccan magick, and I can see how your response is going to change now.

Lunar (05:46pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

I practice some naturaly medicine, but only in addition to doctor's medicine or what you are taking at the moment. Nothing I use is particularly complicated though, so it has not effect on other midicines. Though, a lot of my healing remedies also include some natural wiccan magick, and I can see how your response is going to change now.

Yeah, be careful with taking "natural" medicine in addition to doctor's medicine, as that's the problem Bunny ran into; those "natural" medicines interacting with her real medicines and causing unwanted side effects.

Eh, try all the "natural" wiccan magick you want, as long as you accept that real medicine is what you need to be taking and wiccan magick should just be a supplement to give you peace of mind, the same as Christian prayer or rosaries, or whatever other religions do.  All I can fault you on is that you spell "magic" with a 'k', which I have never understood.  Of course, I question how "magick" is natural, too, you'll have to explain that one to me.

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such wiccan magick to differenciate between our stuff and people pulling rabbits out of a hat.
it is natural because all i do it harness natural energy for good. an example being drawing energy from our natural earth in asking for healing for someone.
you cannot assume that magick just gives me peace of mind if you have never experienced its powers for yourself, thats kinda naive of you.

Lunar (06:42pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such wiccan magick to differenciate between our stuff and people pulling rabbits out of a hat.
it is natural because all i do it harness natural energy for good. an example being drawing energy from our natural earth in asking for healing for someone.
you cannot assume that magick just gives me peace of mind if you have never experienced its powers for yourself, thats kinda naive of you.

But there's already a way to discern between those two; pulling a rabbit out of a hat is sleight of hand, not magic. 

Still, what is "natural energy"?  That makes it sound like there's unnatural energy.  I guess you could say that anthropogenic things like a radio station's signal are "unnatural," even though they're still composed of natural electromagnetic waves arranged in a specific manner. 

I'm perfectly willing to experience the powers of magic.  I just don't see any way to do so in an empirical fashion.  I mean, I'd be willing to build an interferometer, such as the one built that disproved ether theory, if I thought there was any basis for doing so.

Lunar (06:42pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such

Thats bullshit, its spelt with a k in your sense so people can claim a difference!!!

Runic (07:34pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Lunar (06:42pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such

Thats bullshit, its spelt with a k in your sense so people can claim a difference!!!

Sort of like how you add "natural" in front of your folk medicines to try to claim they're different from rubbing random tinctures on yourself and claiming they work.

LtStorm (05:40pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Bunny (05:18pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

My mum had me on that stuff too! She had me on some "natural weight loss" pills too....but they messed with my insulin and I was falling asleep after being awake 4 hours . It was horrible...

This is pretty much exactly why "natural" medicine can be detrimental to your health.  There's very little consideration of pharmacokinetic interactions it could have with other medicines you're currently taking, which is only hurt more by the fact it's usually not prescribed by actual licensed doctors.  No, I don't count practitioners of "natural" medicine as licensed doctors.

I'm not taking anything else though.....and I'm the retard that will start taking them again soon..just half the dosage it said, until I'm okay. I have to go get checked for diabetes - I'm at risk.

Also, I mirror Kimberleys belief.

The meds: http://www.supervits.com/Life-Extension-Integra-Lean-Irvingia-150mg-60-Vcaps-P3404.aspx?gclid=CLT6r5yAs5oCFRJdxwod1Co1cQ

Mum has at least 10 bottles here, that's 600 pills...

Runic (07:34pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Lunar (06:42pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such

Thats bullshit, its spelt with a k in your sense so people can claim a difference!!!

I read a book where it was spelt "magyk".....though I THINK they spell it differently in the UK/US versions, cause I can remember Rhianna's book spelling it different..

http://www.septimusheap.com/

There are many doctor prescribed medicines that have their roots in naturally occurring products..such as penicillin.

niffah (10:21pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

There are many doctor prescribed medicines that have their roots in naturally occurring products..such as penicillin.

And that would be Natural Product Chemistry.  Which has little to nothing to do with Natural Medicines. 

The antibiotic effects of penicillin were discovered decades before it was even considered for use in humans.  And studied for five or more years before clinical trials in humans began.  Then the active compound in it was identified, isolated, and a synthetic path was drawn up for it, allowing it to be created synthetically, making it viable to bring to a large market as it is to this day.

Meanwhile, St. John's Wart was used on people before any effect it had was known or proven, and despite continuing to show little to no difference between its effect on things like depression and a placebo effect, it's sold as a remedy for it anyway.

Bunny (08:26pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

LtStorm (05:40pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Bunny (05:18pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

My mum had me on that stuff too! She had me on some "natural weight loss" pills too....but they messed with my insulin and I was falling asleep after being awake 4 hours . It was horrible...

This is pretty much exactly why "natural" medicine can be detrimental to your health.  There's very little consideration of pharmacokinetic interactions it could have with other medicines you're currently taking, which is only hurt more by the fact it's usually not prescribed by actual licensed doctors.  No, I don't count practitioners of "natural" medicine as licensed doctors.

I'm not taking anything else though.....and I'm the retard that will start taking them again soon..just half the dosage it said, until I'm okay. I have to go get checked for diabetes - I'm at risk.

Also, I mirror Kimberleys belief.

The meds: http://www.supervits.com/Life-Extension-Integra-Lean-Irvingia-150mg-60-Vcaps-P3404.aspx?gclid=CLT6r5yAs5oCFRJdxwod1Co1cQ

Mum has at least 10 bottles here, that's 600 pills...

Yeah, that is Natural Product Chemistry from what I can tell.  It may not be a Natural Medicine, and may be an actual proven drug.  Given, that doesn't make it a good idea.  Fen-phen was an actual proven drug too, but it was rushed through FDA approval and put on the market before detailed studies of its side effects were done and, hey, guess what, it causes your heart to explode and your lungs to collapse!  Whoopsie! 

Given, I'm of the mind that all weight loss drugs are bullshit to some degree, and the only way to really lose weight and keep it off is to exercise and eat better.  Especially exercise.

Bunny (08:26pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Runic (07:34pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

Lunar (06:42pm Sun, May 10, 2009)

magick is spelt with a "k" when refering to spells and such

Thats bullshit, its spelt with a k in your sense so people can claim a difference!!!

I read a book where it was spelt "magyk".....though I THINK they spell it differently in the UK/US versions, cause I can remember Rhianna's book spelling it different..

http://www.septimusheap.com/

I  checked that website and figured it was just an intentional misspelling of the word, along with the words "Physics," (well, actually the German translation) and "Flight," etc. done for comedic effect, such as in the Discworld books.  But a friend that works in a library had to go and point out to me that it's entirely straight-faced teen fiction.  So, I just have to say;

ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE.
ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE.
ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE.
ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE.
ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE.

I think Fen-Phen was the one I'd heard of...


"ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE." WTF does that mean?

Bunny (12:24am Mon, May 11, 2009)

I think Fen-Phen was the one I'd heard of...

* Bunny would still have taken it *

"ANTI-LIFE JUSTIFIES MY HATE." WTF does that mean?

Phrase from DC's Final Crisis comic line that involved the Superman villain, Darkseid, trying to destroy the universe using the Anti-Life Equation.  It's sort of become a memetic mutation.  Usually I say "ANTI-THOUGHT JUSTIFIES MY HATE," but mistyped there and didn't realize it until you pointed it out.

So.. Anti-thought would mean ignorance OR closedmindedness? Or am I off my rocker? It's an ungodly hour, can't expect me to be a genius this early...

Bunny (08:52am Mon, May 11, 2009)

So.. Anti-thought would mean ignorance OR closedmindedness? Or am I off my rocker? It's an ungodly hour, can't expect me to be a genius this early...

Yeah, something like that.  Ignorance, closed-mindedness, willful stupidity, etc.

Like the fucker who got on my bus this morning...


Will blog later .

Oooh. I like this topic, but I've got nothing to contribute for the moment.

Well, except for the lawl kinoki footpad thing.

Unfortunately Lunar stopped posting after I actually questioned her about things, and Runic just had to call the kettle black.

Pretty much, yeah. Give 'em a week. they'll respond.

There are several different camps of homeopathic medicine, and I'm afraid I'm not very well versed in any of them.

I will say this, though:

A very good friend of mine (since we were like, six) grew up to become a chiropractor.  She practices chiropractic medicine in addition to physical therapy in her "studio" in the basement of her mother's home.

She combines "energy healing" with the same physical therapy that you can get through any modern hospital.  Allegedly she treats athletes, and has a very specific clientele.  She's not the type you look up in the phone book.

I tore up my back and my right knee at an early age in a mountain biking accident.  I've been to hospitals and lived through occupational therapy and such, and it sucks.  You get better, but it takes time and patience, and when you're young those qualities are never abundant.

Fast forward to modern life.  My friend graduates college and grad school, and with her mother (her mother was into energy healing or holistic medicine or some such, I never paid much mind), she built her 'studio'...

She has a lift chair that will take you down the stairs without stairs, but once you get to the bottom, instead of a sterile white environment, you're greeted with a large room decorated in dark greens and maroons with gold accents, and live plants EVERYWHERE.  There's recessed can lighting in the room providing just enough light so that everything is very comforting.  All of the tables are done up in a dark red suede and all of the implements of medieval torture are removed from view.  Incense burn and soft panpipe music plays over a high fidelity sound system hidden in the foliage.

She'll chant and sprinkle herbs, and perform the necessary adjustments both physically and spiritually.

Whether or not any of the holistic stuff makes a difference, even she's skeptical to say, BUT

I will say that the experience sure beats the hell out of the sterile white clinics I've been to.  And that has to count for something.

~BBM

That sounds awesome!

I'd love to see photos

bravebluemice (12:48am Thu, May 14, 2009)

There are several different camps of homeopathic medicine, and I'm afraid I'm not very well versed in any of them.

Well, homeopathy is really only one subset of holistic medicine.  Or, to be more accurate, "folk remedies."  Because calling it "medicine" is a stretch.  Specifically, homeopathy is based on "water memory," a concept with no evidence or proposed mechanisms that supposedly makes it so a massively diluted solution still carries the effects of the compound it originally contained.  Even though it contains a statistically insignificant amount currently.

Of course, the compounds used are generally toxins of some sort with no medicinal effect that are used because they cause similarly effects to the symptoms the concoction is attempting to treat.

So you pretty much can't be healed by homeopathic medicine.  The best you can get from it is nothing, the worst is sicker because the solution was improperly prepared and wasn't diluted far enough.

bravebluemice (12:48am Thu, May 14, 2009)

I will say this, though:

A very good friend of mine (since we were like, six) grew up to become a chiropractor.  She practices chiropractic medicine in addition to physical therapy in her "studio" in the basement of her mother's home.

She combines "energy healing" with the same physical therapy that you can get through any modern hospital.  Allegedly she treats athletes, and has a very specific clientele.  She's not the type you look up in the phone book.

I tore up my back and my right knee at an early age in a mountain biking accident.  I've been to hospitals and lived through occupational therapy and such, and it sucks.  You get better, but it takes time and patience, and when you're young those qualities are never abundant.

Fast forward to modern life.  My friend graduates college and grad school, and with her mother (her mother was into energy healing or holistic medicine or some such, I never paid much mind), she built her 'studio'...

She has a lift chair that will take you down the stairs without stairs, but once you get to the bottom, instead of a sterile white environment, you're greeted with a large room decorated in dark greens and maroons with gold accents, and live plants EVERYWHERE.  There's recessed can lighting in the room providing just enough light so that everything is very comforting.  All of the tables are done up in a dark red suede and all of the implements of medieval torture are removed from view.  Incense burn and soft panpipe music plays over a high fidelity sound system hidden in the foliage.

She'll chant and sprinkle herbs, and perform the necessary adjustments both physically and spiritually.

Whether or not any of the holistic stuff makes a difference, even she's skeptical to say, BUT

I will say that the experience sure beats the hell out of the sterile white clinics I've been to.  And that has to count for something.

Yeah, chiropractic is another holistic medicine, and the energy healing sounds a lot like "traditional Chinese medicine" (note: "traditional," not "effect").  I'm sure the experience does beat the hell out of sterile white clinics until you realize you were basically treated to a very expensive day spa trip and received no benefits over a trip to a day spa....

~BBM
[/quote]

wow, sam's kinda overwhelmed. I stumbled here, thinking i might be able to supply something... ah well, maybe I'll just go and post something about eugenics for fun... lol

This topic is dude generally cause i know alot into the whole remedie thing. Personally i think everyone is entitled to their own opinion and that wat storm is saying is quite true, however i do think it is not the end of the world if you try a few remedies here and there, and as for the spelling of Magick, does it matter really? haha these debates get so tense. personally though a remedie has never worked for me but medicine has not done a good job eiether i say take it like a man and let your own body fight dieseases its better for the immune system lols.

Yeah, I'm a huge supporter of pill poppers But seriously, I take ibuprophen for minor headaches and sudaphed at the slightest signs of congestion. I don't believe in letting myself suffer=P

lols, maybe i'm just too lazy to reach for the pills. Or my addictive personality might have a problem with them i'm not sure lols. I'm ill all the time, this darn english weather, i even get colds in summer. This is obviously cause i don't indulge in drugs like every one else lols.

I'm an addictive person....I won't take anything unless I'm in pain that wont let me function....however, if I have a cold you best have all the cold related drugs around because I'll be clawing my way through them .

Ihana (06:05pm Sun, May 17, 2009)

personally though a remedie has never worked for me but medicine has not done a good job eiether

Thats not true Ihana! I gave you something for your cold which cleared you up some and the stuff on your Eczema which also helped. I'm not saying I can sure stuff with natural remedies, but they can help the symptoms sometimes. Nor am I saying they work all the time, but it's better than pumping yourself with drugs that are killing your immune system and affecting your body with often bad side effects.

And the reason I didn't argue back was because I had better things to do than argue with such a closed minded... person. If you were interested in hearing our views why discount them? It's especially foolish when you don't know what your talking about.

You seem to believe for whatever reasons in science, and I don't. I accept that. Why do you have such a problem with my beliefs? Most people have a problem with my kinda beliefs because they are afraid of them and do not understand them, and I can see this as a strong possibility with you.

Let me know when you stop being so arrogant and are ready to listen to someone else other than yourself, because I will be waiting.

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

Thats not true Ihana! I gave you something for your cold which cleared you up some and the stuff on your Eczema which also helped. I'm not saying I can sure stuff with natural remedies, but they can help the symptoms sometimes. Nor am I saying they work all the time, but it's better than pumping yourself with drugs that are killing your immune system and affecting your body with often bad side effects.

...Yeah, most drugs aren't immunosuppressants.  Besides, natural remedies, if they work, have just as good a chance of causing bad side effects.  However, if they have no effect, there's no risk of side effects.  Such is medicine.

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

And the reason I didn't argue back was because I had better things to do than argue with such a closed minded... person.

Closed-minded?  How am I closed-minded?  Did I not ask you follow-up questions?  I was curious as to their answers.  I even asked and tried to discuss the use of a 'k' in spelling 'magick.' 

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

If you were interested in hearing our views why discount them?

Because I was pointing out the flaws and inconsistencies in your views to be helpful?

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

It's especially foolish when you don't know what your talking about.

I fear I know too well what I'm talking about.

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

You seem to believe for whatever reasons in science, and I don't. I accept that.

Why do you not believe in science?  If there is any sort of research or trials done on your natural remedies to determine what they're good at curing, that is science in and of itself.

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

Why do you have such a problem with my beliefs?

Because you were bordering dangerously close to the anti-vaccionists and similar movements, such as the woman currently in the news for refusing and trying to avoid chemotherapy for her very sick son.  They kill people.  Mostly children.  That's what I have a problem with such beliefs.  If those aren't your beliefs, then there's no problem!

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

Most people have a problem with my kinda beliefs because they are afraid of them and do not understand them, and I can see this as a strong possibility with you.

What have I said that implies I don't understand them?  Please, enlighten me, I would like to learn what it is I do not know about your beliefs, and what I have said that is wrong of them,

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

Let me know when you stop being so arrogant and are ready to listen to someone else other than yourself, because I will be waiting.

And I will be waiting for you to respond to my questions rather than calling me closed-minded. 

wow! this topic is becoming a very hot debate, i suppose evryones calling you close minded storm , my bad i suppose i did start it all my apologies i was having a bad day lol. i think rejecting treatment for serious illness like cancer and stuff is very foolish when it generally works. We aren't in the stone age so i think we should use technology to help ourselves live for longer. As for the remedies my eczema has never healed up so you can't say that lunar, i tried it yes but it didn't do much good . (Doesn't help when your allergic to the actual medical stuff thats supposed to help as well) i am defiantly pro medicine generally cause i come from a medical background, i just don't tend to use it much lols. 

LtStorm (10:32am Thu, May 14, 2009)

Yeah, chiropractic is another holistic medicine, and the energy healing sounds a lot like "traditional Chinese medicine" (note: "traditional," not "effect").  I'm sure the experience does beat the hell out of sterile white clinics until you realize you were basically treated to a very expensive day spa trip and received no benefits over a trip to a day spa....

~BBM

Once again, I'll point out that she does the same work that I can get at a local chiropractic clinic without all the extras.  It is a licensed medical facility, not a day spa.  In fact, I get the same sound medical advice from HER that I've gotten from doctors my entire life.  (Most of which involve losing a few pounds, I am a little soggy 'round the midsection...)

As for my back, I did see a lower back injury specialist after experiencing a lifting related injury, and he told me that he could just get me an open ended prescription for pain medication.  I didn't like this idea much.

After several adjustments at a chiropractor, I needed no medication to function like a normal human being.

I'll endorse chiropractic for the stuff relating to the back and spinal system.  As far as the other crazy stuff they (as a community) endorse in, I could admit is sketchy.  I'm up on my immunizations, and will use antibiotics to kill off infection, (not that I get many.  I've only been on antibiotics twice as far back as I can remember)...  I'm not anti-medicine, I'm just a pretty healthy fellow.

As far as the bigger stuff, like Cancer, there is no cure yet.  Sure, they can cut out the defective cells and bathe you in radiation, or worse, stuff you full of toxins and hope you're tough enough to survive....  I've known more than two dozen people who have died of cancer, and every last one of them was made to suffer through "treatments"...  After watching those people die horrible, painful deaths, you'll understand my skepticism.

I guess it really depends on what you believe in.  Perception, once again, is everything.  Some will say something works, some will say it doesn't.  The results will tell, and the truth will speak for itself in time.

~BBM

Oh, and LtStorm:  I think you asked for it when you called a large part of this board's members narrow minded or ignorant.  Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, and by repeatedly telling them why they're wrong isn't the way to change their minds, it's just a good way to look like an ass.  ~Cheers

bravebluemice (08:46am Thu, May 21, 2009)

Oh, and LtStorm:  I think you asked for it when you called a large part of this board's members narrow minded or ignorant.  Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint, and by repeatedly telling them why they're wrong isn't the way to change their minds, it's just a good way to look like an ass.  ~Cheers

Couldn't have said it better myself. Back off.

This debate is "hot" or "personal" because people are taking stuff that's said to heart. When you enter a debate you need to do so knowing you might get flack for your opinions and beliefs so you don't take them to heart and get hurt. When you do that it's easier to have fun .

As a note: the name calling needs to stop.


Anyway, I'd like to put forth another viewpoint, which is personal .

For 4 years I've gone to the doctors about the same problems, which I wont tell you all of but generally I've been known to pass out due to intense stomach pain, and I spend every second of every day nauseous. When I don't want to be nauseous, I eat until my stomach is so full I can't feel it....but sometimes I feel so sick I cannot eat, though I do and suffer through the nausea. On top of this I tend to get indigestion, especially in the mornings or when my stomach is empty (and if my stomach is empty for too long I throw up, I have since I was like 6 or so).

Now, in response to this I get asked if I'm sure:
-It's not period pain. Do I look fucking retarded? How old am I?! NINETEEN. I think I might be used to what period pain is by now, don't you?! Not to mention, if my reproductive organs are THAT high up we have a more serious problem than was first anticipated.
-It's not gas pains. I've had gas pains, they attack my entire stomach and I pretty much have a panic attack because I think I'm dying (well after having pains in one spot for so long, you might freak out too ).

Now, each time I've gone, I've told them that the pain is to the left, right under my last rib. The pain is in ONE spot and feels like a hot knife. It's the intensity of the pain, and the fact that it's not all through my stomach that causes me to pass out. I feel like I'm not listened to.

FINALLY, after I went in screaming and crying did they decide it might be a good time for a blood test, to check for h pilori (sp?). It came back with a "healthy amount", so apparently I don't have an ulcer. I'm sitting there like "well, what about other tests. It might not even BE my stomach, it could be some other organ near it. Where's the MRI and scopes and stuff?"

I had a three part blog series which bitched about the whole experience. Anyway, my point being: medicine isnt exactly a friend in this instance. I get drugs when I don't need them (like the time I said I was having trouble sleeping and was given sleeping pills, even though the problem was due to back pain because I strained a muscle.... I just needed a few hot baths) and I don't get them when I do (like the stomach issue, in which case drugs and tests are considered the same thing).

As another instance where medicine was against me, here's my blog:

Quote from Alundra

Continuing with the epicly long depression, we should move onto those who were there to help me through it.

The "helpers"

---

I went through shrinks faster than I would have liked to my whole life. Only one to ever truly listen to me was a German woman. They all discharged me saying I was "wasting their time" or I was "okay" or what ever. NO. I'm not fucking okay, can't you hear me?!

I've always asked for male shrinks, because I feel they won't dismiss me if I bring up "woman problems". The women I've talked to just dismiss that. If I say I feel depressed around that time the women shrink says that's normal, and spends no more time on it. I mean, everyone has it, so it's not important right? The male asks me what I mean by depressed, and then discovers I actually feel suicidal around those times. He gives me council, and helps me move through it.

See? Not listening isnt only DAMAGING but it could KILL SOMEONE.

The last shrink I had, watched me crying infront of him, and took away the one thing keeping me alive. My antidepressants. He took them away too fast, and I had withdrawal symptoms. I still have them. I heard it can take up to 8 years to get rid of them, so I'm about half way.

Let me show you a list, if it's crossed off, I didnt have it. If it's italicised, I still have it:
I had to stop.. The electric zaps were killers. I punched myself so many times I about knocked myself out. I DID manage to throw myself out of my desk in math class, it honestly did get that violent.

The abdominal discomfort felt like period pain (or like someone was knotting your organs) 24/7, it was so bad I was living off pain killers one week. It lasted 3+ months. Now I just get what feels like "electric shocks" every now and then. I don't know for sure if it's related.

The vivid dreams and nightmares were EXTREMELY graphic. I cannot even describe to you the amount of detail in these, no photograph, or even the human eye, can show you how unbelievably clear and detailed the image was. I don't even know how those images ever made their way into my head. I was in my body 100% and my face was being mauled by a sheepdog. This dog had previously made a play stance and given me a stick, it was not hostile. It was my favourite kind of dog.

Fever was great though. When it got to 100 I was sent home .

I still get restlessness. It's not normal. You literally HAVE to do something. I cannot even describe it. It's like RLS all over your body....but nothing you do gets rid of it. I used to run outside and scream my lungs out for the pain of it....but nothing helped. It feels like you're on the verge of a panic attack, but nothing is pushing you over to the actual attack. It's horrible .

No one listened to me when I said I had these.

Now, for the record, every single thing listed here is counted as "more than usual". Like for weakness, I was physically able to hold my pen, I just couldnt get my muscles to do it for long.

The aggression is indescribable. When I had that (thank GOD it's gone) my mind was at peace, my BODY wanted to kill!! It scared me so badly I ran every time something happened. Thankfully, mum decided to listen to me at this point and discovered the lists of symptoms. She had sent them to my teachers, so when I went off my head in one class (with language and threats I would NEVER say to a person if I were in my right mind) then ran away, I didnt get into trouble. Lucky it was a Friday, we had the next week off. It took that entire week and then some to get back to normal. I was afraid of my own body.

The memory issues I still have today. I can barely remember anything. I can remember anything I read, and virtually everything said... but that's as far as that goes. It takes a lot of effort for me to recall some things that happened this week, the week before...

The suicidal thoughts were the WORST I have ever experienced. I had to lock every sharp object away from myself. I would see an object, and think of 100 ways to use it to satisfy that thought. In the end I gave up. I was crying a LOT. It was like I had regressed to the beginning.

He was right about one thing: I needed to be off them. I had an emotional addiction (which he would have figured out if he LISTENED to me), and I needed to be brought off slowly. I also had a VERY high dosage, and I needed EXTRA caution to get off them. The tablets were making me sick in the end: when you take antidepressants and you arent depressed, you become it.


There's some symptoms here too:
http://www.prozactruth.com/zoloft.htm

This is making me think all of my "issues" I'm still having are directly related to that now. But that's for the next (and final) part .

Keep in mind these drugs were a godsend and saved my life. I was forced to take them in the beginning (I wouldnt even take panadol (USA: tylenol) for headaches, so I wasnt exactly "receptive" to other drugs... especially the daily sort) but eventually I realised they kept me afloat most of the time.

I'm not against medicine. I've had shit experiences with it and hate doctors for it......but I've not gotten any benefits from natural medicine (then again I havent taken them regularily, I'm pisspoor at keeping a medicine schedule cause I cannot remember whether I took them or not ).

So yeah, there's another two points of view.



As a note, I think that both have the potential for side effects. My mum buys this sort of stuff all the time, and they come in bottles and information packets. Some of them have side effects listed - such as messing with blood pressure, vitamins and stuff in your body, and the one I'm taking now messes with insulin (and I've noticed that).

I generally don't get side effects from medicine. Only three have given me any side effects, and I stopped taking them .

I didn't strictly name call... But I'm sorry I will stop.
This sucks Bunny slap the doctors till they listen!
Or change doctors, there will be less law suits involved
I agree that people in the medicine profession are not terribly interested in you half the time, more interested in your money... Though that isn't true for all of them I know.

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

You seem to believe for whatever reasons in science, and I don't. I accept that. 

But LtStorm is closeminded for not believing in homeopathy/etc.?
Don't you think that's a bit hypocritical?
And, there's a difference between being narrow minded and being a skeptic. The former disregards things out of hand, the latter disregards things that there is no factual basis for.

yeah but i have no problem with his relentless faith in science, he seems to have a problem with my belief in homeopathic remedies. I agree that science is all good and well, and I rely on conventional medicine, but why cant I use homeopathic remedies too? He seems to have a problem with this, whereas I have no problem with him only accepting science is what I meant. It's his choice, it just makes him a little closed minded in my opinion.

rekenner (01:23pm Thu, May 21, 2009)

Lunar (11:22am Wed, May 20, 2009)

You seem to believe for whatever reasons in science, and I don't. I accept that. 

And, there's a difference between being narrow minded and being a skeptic. The former disregards things out of hand, the latter disregards things that there is no factual basis for.

If this is what you think, then I would say that he is being a little skeptic.

Hey Rekenner

How about an introduction topic? lol

Wait, wait.
A board that actually *does* want them?
This is craziness and madness and heresy and... Sure, why not.

W00t! Fresh meat for samgam! *does a dance*

rekenner (05:22pm Thu, May 21, 2009)

Wait, wait.
A board that actually *does* want them?
This is craziness and madness and heresy and... Sure, why not.

Well, to be honest, It's like buttin in on a conversation without telling people who the hell you think you are .

samgam (05:28pm Thu, May 21, 2009)

W00t! Fresh meat for samgam! *does a dance*

Yay for protein overdoses?
I seriously googled that after a meat binge one day...I was craving it and I couldnt stop .

Nah, I'm just kinda hungry for steak right now and we don't have any *sigh*

I'm still here, sticking with the vegetarianism!
Though I could do with more proteins... lol

*gasp!* You live without the joys of bacon??? Just kidding, I perfectly understand vegetarianism, but it's not for me. I am a meat person and that diet would starve me Just make sure to eat your eggs and nuts! (or just nuts if you don't do the incredible, edible egg, thing)

I still eat eggs, but not very often.
I eat nuts, but they are so fatty! lol
Cheese and beans also have protein is, so I should be fine
The smell of bacon makes me feel sick these days...
I love how off topic we have got

Beans are good. Sometimes. But I love very fattening things lol