Andre Vienne

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Nathan Bransford, one of my favorite agent-bloggers, wrote a good piece on agents. You should seriously read it. "What Do Literary Agents Do?"


So. You want to get that 100,000 word abomination you call a "novel" published. Lucky you, it's not a jungle out there. There are a few things you should know before going out there and trying to get it published.

0) Nobody buys 100,000 word novels as your first novel. Edit it down to under 100,000.

All jokes aside, a rough guide to publishing follows.

1) There are five general "types" of publishing. This is my own breakdown of them, there are sources that would disagree on them, and people who ask "Why the hell do you separate them like that, Andre, you jackass?" But l will continue with what I've got, because I don't care to go back and edit int.

Large Publishing House - These are the big dogs with several imprints to their name and huge market presence. While they are slowly in decline due to a reluctance to adapt to the Internet quickly, they are still a formidable concentration of money. Not to mention, they have huge marketing departments and a host of other cool things. To get into these, however, you need an agent. More on them later.

Small Publishing House - These are smaller groups, generally trained around a niche market, or with some business practice that is different from normal houses, but if they have sold a good amount of books before, then you can be sure that they don't fall into the last category. They may or may not require an agent to get into, depending on the publishing house. If they're a startup, then trust your instincts. If they sound shady, don't do business with them, that's a good way to get burned. Be cautious!

Self-Publishing - Maybe you think you can beat the system. Maybe you will. There are a lot of stigmas out about those who self-publish, but those who do it well (note: These are few and far between!) can end up with more focus put on them and their self-promotion, and can potentially get offered an agent or a bump up to a bigger publishing house. With self-publishing, sometimes you can mark up your own book to a point, but for the most part, it's harder to snare a profit this way.* Also of note is that getting self-published through an internet company like Lulu can get your book posted on Amazon, but it will not show up in brick and mortar stores. This is because these books cannot be sent back to the publisher.** If you're not printing it yourself, it's wise to go with a service that charges the customer for the printing fees. This is what separates the self-publishing world from the next bit, vanity publishing. Oh. And do try to get something with an ISBN. This is about the only way works of poetry are going to get published. Or large collections of short stories for new authors.

Vanity Publishing - This could hardly be called publishing at all. You send a document to a printer, tell them how many copies, and pay them for the copies. This will often set you back quite a ways. But, hey, you own all copies of the book, and can sell them as you wish. They are not listed anywhere, like print-on-demand services. Of course, this is terribly expensive. Vanity publishing is often used for personal things, family reunion books and the like. It used to be used often for books of poetry, where that now falls to self-publishing/print on demand programs.

Scam Publishing - Okay, this is what happens sometimes. That's okay, it happens to a lot of people. You paid in advance, went with a new group, or didn't listen to that nagging feeling in the back of your head that said "Do not pursue." Happens to the best of us. Still, scam publishing is where you paid for something and received no product. Report them to the authorities in their area. Scamming is pretty damn illegal. If you want your money back, and happen to live near a place that has a court show, go on that. Unless you paid an obscene amount. Then get a lawyer.

Okay, so that's an overview of publishing. Now, what's an agent and why do you want one?

Agents are magical book fairies that know the ins and outs of the labyrinth of publishing and contract law. Everything in the previous sentence is true except for the words between "Agents" and "know." To be technical, they are partners in the business of writing. They help you get your book published, and to make you become a star, and you help them by raising them up to where they're known as the awesome guy who was totally your agent, so they can represent more books.

Agents will not charge you up-front. They take their money as a percentage of sales, generally 10-15% on domestic sales. Take it as a warning sign if they want you to pay them some absurd amount. Agents offer a lot of advice, and help manage other things as well, like foreign rights to books, movie rights negotiations, and other helpful things. They can also offer indispensable advice and help you find ideas when you're running low. Agents can be a great help.

That isn't to say there aren't bad agents out there. If an agent requires you to pay money before sending them a submission, then they're probably not legit. Also, if you see them advertising in a lot of places, they're probably not going to be much good. Ultimately, ask to see a list of books they've represented. If they don't show it to you, run like hell. If they say they represent poetry, then that's another red flag. No one in their right mind tries to sell poetry.

Ultimately, I provide you with a link to Writer Beware. It's an amazing page, For more information, read it as much as possible. It also gives a lot of good examples.



* If you're getting into writing to score profits enough to live off of, you'll probably be disappointed.
** New technology alert: They have made a device which can make print-on-demand books in the bookstore in ten to fifteen minutes or so. This may affect the future of self-publishing.

 

 

Bunny

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Thanks for this post Andre, I've stickied it!

This is something EVERYONE needs to read. I don't want any of you to fall into the trap of (borderline or otherwise) vanity publishing!

You deserve more for your work.

 

Kimberley

Furry Young Bunny

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Ha ha, this made me laugh! Thank you for the info AND the laugh! Good job! :D

 

Andre Vienne

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Any time. I just figured this would be an easy way to address a few issues our dear Bunny had been having.

 

Ellie Insanity

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Thanks for the advice and the laugh, abomination, that was awesome! :')

 

samgam

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Oh, me and my hope for selling poetry =P Guess I should stick to finishing my novel before my poetry so, if people like it, they can say "Oh, this author that I liked also wrote this awkward book of poetry. Let us read it!" instead of "Oh, this random high school graduate has a book of depressing poetry. Just like every other high school graduate. Let us go read that new and interesting novel over there." :(

 

Archangel

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I long ago gave up on ever being a published author.

There is too much pressure involved with deadlines and such and that is not the way I like to write.

Plus whats so bad about putting your work there via the internet for people to enjoy without it costing?

 

Bunny

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True, but if you have a dream you shouldnt give up on it :).

 

Archangel

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True, but if you have a dream you shouldnt give up on it :).

As someone famous once said;

I had a dream.. But I don't want to talk about it! (Ok, maybe not.. But much funnier!!)

I couldn't write a 'standard' novel. I've found my niche in a story broken into a series of 'episodes' if you will.

 

Bunny

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Then do it like that, that's fresh and exciting :P.

 

Archangel

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Then do it like that, that's fresh and exciting :P.

I do.. You even reTweeted the 'story' in question  (K)
Lol.

 

Bunny

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No I meant publish it like that. Like how the choose your own adventure books go. THAT wasnt "normal" publishing a long time ago :P.

 

Cassiel

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Well make-your-own-adventure books aren't really that normal nowadays. The only one i can really think of are the Goosebumps books.

 

Archangel

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I doubt not only my talent but also that any publisher would be interested.. So, as they say in my country, ner ner! Lol.

 

Cassiel

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Does anyone else find a problem with having to pass our art onto someone else to judge? And based on that judging, and that person's sole opinion, is one of the biggest impacts on a writer's life?

 

Archangel

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Yes.. Yes I do.

 

Bunny

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Well make-your-own-adventure books aren't really that normal nowadays. The only one i can really think of are the Goosebumps books.

There are TONNES!!

Point was that just because you want to publish something that hasnt been done, doesnt mean it will be rejected. It may be met with scepticism, but it might start a new trend!

Does anyone else find a problem with having to pass our art onto someone else to judge? And based on that judging, and that person's sole opinion, is one of the biggest impacts on a writer's life?
Yes.. Yes I do.

Debate and discussion topic on the double soldier!
It can be either, or both XD

 

LtStorm

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Does anyone else find a problem with having to pass our art onto someone else to judge? And based on that judging, and that person's sole opinion, is one of the biggest impacts on a writer's life?

Not at all, but, then, I'm a scientist, so I consider passing on my "art" to someone else to be judged a part of the cycle of progress.  Of course, I also expect them to keep their opinion out of the decision on what my "art" merits.

 

Andre Vienne

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I meant to reply to this a while back, but yeah. I'm with Storm on this one.

 

Bunny

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That's why writers need to learn how to take criticism :).

 

Andre Vienne

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Nathan Bransford, an amazing agent, has posted an answer on what agents are himself. The link is soon to be added to this post.

Or not, as I don't have a little 'modify' button for the topic.
Still, it can be found here on his blog: "What Do Literary Agents Do?"

 

cinderr

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This is an extraordinary article and of great personal help to me! I have plodded through the work of being an author for a million years and didn't know how this all broke down. Did I mention I have a degree? (They issue them with your drivers license in Wisconsin). The only thing I was ever sure about was that I wasn't paying anyone, they would be paying me! A few have but not nearly so many as I would like. Thanks for the info!

Ha ha, this made me laugh! Thank you for the info AND the laugh! Good job! :D
Informative and funny---super mixture!  :D

I doubt not only my talent but also that any publisher would be interested.. So, as they say in my country, ner ner! Lol.
This is not a pep talk but if you are a writer, you must write. It may be shitty but it is still as natural as breathing and must be accomplished! Write everyday,force yourself,and each day your work will get better. Not saying it will sell a million copies but seriously, dispose of the attitude and sit down to your laptop!  :'(

Does anyone else find a problem with having to pass our art onto someone else to judge? And based on that judging, and that person's sole opinion, is one of the biggest impacts on a writer's life?

Not at all, but, then, I'm a scientist, so I consider passing on my "art" to someone else to be judged a part of the cycle of progress.  Of course, I also expect them to keep their opinion out of the decision on what my "art" merits.
I guess for awhile, I didn't fully understand the question---maybe I still don't :S Here's my take on it--I have no trouble sending my work off. On the off-chance that I get some constructive criticism, I am pleased beyond compare!
I am not the writer who reads passages of their work to friends etc. Few actually ask which may be telling me something but I will not turn my manuscript over to a friend to read.
I would not permit my husband to read my work because it is unclear whether he actually reads or not. On the other hand, I could share my work and I have, at a writer's meeting.

Does anyone else find a problem with having to pass our art onto someone else to judge? And based on that judging, and that person's sole opinion, is one of the biggest impacts on a writer's life?
But Cassiel, that's the point, isn't it? We express ourselves and want people (usually) to know it.
A rejection cannot be the biggest impact on a writers life. A writer perseveres, criticism rolls off our backs (unless there is something to be gained from it, like insight), and we continue to put words to paper, fingers to keyboards, creative grease to elbows.
Expect to line your drawers with rejection slips, make childlike mosaics of them, and just mainly disregard them! Develop a skin as tough as a sun bronzed Miami housewife...and proceed.

I long ago gave up on ever being a published author.

There is too much pressure involved with deadlines and such and that is not the way I like to write.

Plus whats so bad about putting your work there via the internet for people to enjoy without it costing?
Just sayin'? Or do you want an opinion? My opinion would be to do it exactly like you want to! Sounds slightly like a cop out to me though.

 

hoodoowytch

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Great post! Very informative...this is the sort of information I have been looking for lately. Considering doing children's poetry books. It was pointed out to me that I might want to consider such a thing.

I'd like to have a hand in writing books that make kids want to read. Sounds like a nice legacy to leave one day. :)

 

CharButler

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Regular Member
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This is not an easy world to break into as a professional. I love writing stories, lyrics, childrens books, poetry, novels etc. as a hobby. I have tried one route as a personal friend of a friend who thought they might be able to show it to someone and have a novel i wrote published. It was honestly the most crushing thing in my life when they said they didn't have any interest in it. Unfortunately the internet can be wonderful for so many reasons, but it also brings out a lot of scammers. Be very careful about where you send and put your work and who you trust with it.
I found all of these tips incredible useful, and when i decide in the future I want to get into having some of my work published again I will be getting this out immediately.

 



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Nameless (Andre Vienne) is a Novelist who has made 666 posts since joining Creative Burrow on 08:56am Mon, Mar 30, 2009. Andre Vienne was invited by Bunny.

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