The last topic I posted got a couple responses which made me challenge my own views so I figured I would post more of these.

I think that if you are good because you want to get int heaven then really you are a bad person. Also if you don't think when you die life is over then you are very dangerous. So I suppose I fall under the category that it does do more bad than good.     

mjhunter23 (05:28am Wed, Apr 16, 2014)

The last topic I posted got a couple responses which made me challenge my own views so I figured I would post more of these.

I think that if you are good because you want to get int heaven then really you are a bad person. Also if you don't think when you die life is over then you are very dangerous. So I suppose I fall under the category that it does do more bad than good.   

I agree on some things here. If someone is only not being an utter lowlife piece of crap because they're afraid of going to Hell then they're probably not a very nice person anyway.

However, I do believe that existence goes on after physical death because I believe in energy. Scientific fact that energy can not die, it just changes. Something powers the body, but the body eventually wears out and that essential Id and energy has to go somewhere. Personally, I believe in reincarnation.

I believe that religion does more bad than good because people tend to do an awful lot of bad in the name of their god and religion. Anything that has been conceived of by people with the desire to dominate and control is never good. Spirituality and religion are NOT the same thing. Religion kills the spirit, while spiritual enlightenment, growth and understanding helps that essential id to thrive.

Yes and no.

In terms of society as a whole I think it to be a very negative influence. It is detrimental to scientific advancement, it provides excuses for terrible morals and ostracizes anyone who is different.

For any given individual however, it seems like it promotes well being and happiness in those who believe. It gives people something to look forward to, and allows them to feel that even in the darkest times there is someone watching out for them.

It's a double-edged sword really. Any religion has it's good and bad sides.

The thing is, religion, and come to think of it "harm" and "good" are all aspects of a system... that is, not a conserved quantity that you can measure out in a beaker and compare on a weighing scale. Harm is an active entity, and especially emotional, mental, and social or cultural harm... invisible! And yet, everywhere! Everywhere that really matters! It's like gum so that it collects a cover of whatever will stick to it: religion, politics, racial prejudice, fashion sense and music genre...

I recently caught up on The Power of Myth documentary which was a series of interviews with mythologist Joseph Campbell, and he basically said that you can't beat such a system and you can't change the system. You can, though, sort of beat it by remaining human in the system.

Ergo... religion does harm when it makes you less human, or makes other humans less human to you. If religion is the most resonant language for some people to live out a very accepting philosophy, then no, it does no harm. If the implicit and most expressed philosophy is that of objectification, domination, and intolerance...well, who agreed to it? Unfortunately, humans who dehumanized themselves for a system of organized religion. The stories themselves are not, usually, to blame....but I can sort of see where they can be blamed.

My thought is that the INTENTION of religion is good, i.e., to make each person care about other humans, animals, and all of creation on this earth. We are told to help each other, and feel their pain by putting ourself in their shoes, respecting nature, and seeing ourselves as caretakers for God's creations here.
If this is how it worked out, I think it would be awesome.

Sadly, it seems just the opposite is what happens in the actual practice of religion. People are told what they should believe, and how they should act,  and more wars and killing has happened in the name of religious beliefs than probably any other reason . Religious leaders since early times have controlled the people, and having the power to condemn people to death who dared to speak out against religious dogma.
Every new religion that has come about, has had to go through a struggle to be accepted as a church; at least up until modern times. Now, it seems that anyone with any kind of a religious belief system can simply start their own church.

I was raised a Christian, by wonderful parents, and never questioned anything I was taught  for many years. Now, I can see that I no longer think everything was right, or at least was misunderstood; so  am once again looking at spiritual things, this time with a much more open mind.

bsthebenster (01:12am Sun, Jun 22, 2014)

Yes and no.

In terms of society as a whole I think it to be a very negative influence. It is detrimental to scientific advancement, it provides excuses for terrible morals and ostracizes anyone who is different.

For any given individual however, it seems like it promotes well being and happiness in those who believe. It gives people something to look forward to, and allows them to feel that even in the darkest times there is someone watching out for them.

It's a double-edged sword really. Any religion has it's good and bad sides.

Out of all the posts on this thread I think I agree with yours the most.  (Although most of us seem to have the same view so far)

Religion can be good and bad depending on the individual so it's hard to determine whether it does more harm than good.  And even if we all agreed that religion does more harm than good, would it be fair to take religion away from those who do good?  I think a better goal is to be against religious people that clearly do harm but not to be against the concept of religion as a whole.

I'd like to see a day where we don't need religion, where people can find that same peace without the potential negatives of organized religion.

It seems to me that there is a huge difference between religion and spirituality. Religion is more of the organized practice of believing in God, and following doctrines that have ben put in place by the leaders of each church. People who belong to the church are expected (and often required) to accept the stated beliefs of the church as a whole, and not to question what they are taught.
Even worse, most churches also teach that they are the One True Church, and that all other churches and religions are wrong , and even worse, condemned to hell. This, just in itself, has lead to hatred and fighting, and even wars between the different religious faiths.

Spirituality, is more of a personal thing, and it is how you yourself look at other people as individuals, and the world as a whole. It is something you determine in your heart, and not something that you are taught.

Overall, I think we would be much better without organized religion, and people could just follow the truths that are in each of our hearts.  I think we would have less wars, and strife in this world if our religious beliefs were just our own, and not controlled by any faith or church.

I think the whole point of religion was to encourage people to be good despite what they might actually be like inside.

Not sure how people are dangerous if they believe in an afterlife?

I think that anytime a person is doing good only for the reward, and not because they want to do good; then that person is not always good inside.  This actually has nothing to do with religion, but with a person's character and their integrity.
People who use religion do this, and people who use some other motivator do it.

It might be someone who helps you when your car is broke down, but what they really want is for you to pay them for helping you; and not because they care about the fact that your car is broken down.

There is a huge difference between using religion to get things in life (or heaven), and caring about people as most religion teaches us to do. 

My thinking: I so wish it were true.

I wish for god, or nirvana, any sort of enlightened state that tells me what is right and wrong and how to respond to any situation. Unfortunately, I believe that most religions have been perverted to turn a profit, it is hard to find true wisdom these days, therefore, I am always analyzing my decisions.

I try always to make "the decision I will least regret", but I think it is a better way to live, questioning my choices than looking to a religion to answer those questions for me. Yet....I yearn for the certainty of belief and community many of my religious friends have.

It is so hard to say, I think I'll be spending the rest of my life contemplating this question...

What if it's not about doing right or wrong but learning from mistakes, learning what right and wrong is and why they're right and wrong?

Wouldnt it then make more sense to leave us to choose?

Wordee (11:17pm Mon, Aug  4, 2014)

My thinking: I so wish it were true.

I wish for god, or nirvana, any sort of enlightened state that tells me what is right and wrong and how to respond to any situation. Unfortunately, I believe that most religions have been perverted to turn a profit, it is hard to find true wisdom these days, therefore, I am always analyzing my decisions.

I try always to make "the decision I will least regret", but I think it is a better way to live, questioning my choices than looking to a religion to answer those questions for me. Yet....I yearn for the certainty of belief and community many of my religious friends have.

It is so hard to say, I think I'll be spending the rest of my life contemplating this question...

I totally agree with you. I mean Religion was created by humans: If you read the Bible only mentions the word Church twice--And God never talked about Religions--What we need to do as you mentioned, is to be very conscious about how we act and react to every situation in Life. Even better stop thinking the Bible is a "religious book" cause is not! It is a very very interesting Book we all should read from time to time.

In some cases religion can do more harm than good but we have seen them bring people together, believing in the same thing, making those people feel whole, feel like they belong, I sort of follow a religion where I do believe we don't just go to nothing after death, I don't believe thats it, I can't comprehend nothingness, it just doesn't seem right

I think religion does more harm than good.
My reasoning behind this is just that I think that the people who are good people will generally do good with or without religion. The people who are bad will generally do bad things regardless BUT with religion will do it with zealous religious conviction and often pull people who are morally ambiguous along for the ride.

I live in a country that is probably 40% of people at least nominally Christian and 40% non religious and 20% some other religion (pulling figures out of nowhere but it feels about right).
It is not a "religious" country in any definition.

I am not invested in any religion. I think the belief in God or whatever is fine.

I had a bad week. My friends rallied behind me.
I had my Atheist friends have me over for Sunday roast.
I had my Buddhist mate take me out to the pub for a couple of drinks
I had my little Muslim mate ring me up and check up on me then smsed me big hugs to cheer me up.
My Christian friends went in to bat for me over an issue, without me asking.

The thing that ties these beautiful people together is not the fact that they are religious, it is that they are good people and my life is better for having them in it. This is one reason I have never understood bigotry. With bigotry you close your mind off to friendship like this.

George (10:55am Thu, Aug 14, 2014)

I think religion does more harm than good.
My reasoning behind this is just that I think that the people who are good people will generally do good with or without religion. The people who are bad will generally do bad things regardless BUT with religion will do it with zealous religious conviction and often pull people who are morally ambiguous along for the ride.

I live in a country that is probably 40% of people at least nominally Christian and 40% non religious and 20% some other religion (pulling figures out of nowhere but it feels about right).
It is not a "religious" country in any definition.

I am not invested in any religion. I think the belief in God or whatever is fine.

I had a bad week. My friends rallied behind me.
I had my Atheist friends have me over for Sunday roast.
I had my Buddhist mate take me out to the pub for a couple of drinks
I had my little Muslim mate ring me up and check up on me then smsed me big hugs to cheer me up.
My Christian friends went in to bat for me over an issue, without me asking.

The thing that ties these beautiful people together is not the fact that they are religious, it is that they are good people and my life is better for having them in it. This is one reason I have never understood bigotry. With bigotry you close your mind off to friendship like this.

I agree. I mean, we see it all the time. People say they'll be good to get into heaven, but they don't behave at all. If people went to hell for anything the bible says, I think they'd all be in hell. I don't know anybody, Christian or not, go a life time without hurting anyone's feelings in some way or another.

I also haven't seen anything to show that Christians are less prone to this behaviour than atheists. In fact, in America, the states who are known for being very religious, or the Bible Belt, if you will, have the highest murder rate in the whole country.

I'm not saying Christians are worse than atheists, but there's nothing to say that they're any better. It's nice what the bible tries to achieve, but it failed in my opinion.

I agree entirely.
I see religion as a personal thing. I quite often have had chats to my Muslim and Christian friends to see how they "marry up" the moral dubious aspects of their religion into their lives. They do and do it well. They simply contextualise the bad aspects as not relevant for today's society and extenuatebthe more moral aspects I think this is healthy and reasonable.
They are good people leading good lives

I think many people get faith confused with religion.
The majority of organised religions are cesspits of evil. People committing heinous crimes in the name of 'God'.
'God' is the personification of an idea that there was more to life/universe/everything than we could see.
I'm an Athiest. It doesn't mean I don't have faith, it just comes from within.
You don't need religion to be a good person. Religion is there for the bad people to hide in.

I have learned as I've grown older and being raised up in the Lord not to debate with people about my faith in Christ, but to share the message of salvation, and God will take care of the rest. I also know how important it is to show the love of Christ, that is what will cause people to want to get to know him for themselves. Ask yourselves these questions?

Would you rather believe in Jesus and find out that the bible was not true when you die?

Or would you rather live not believing in Jesus and find out everything the bible said is true when you die?

Writeaway, I agree with your statement completely !  I don't think that anyone can push people into believing about God (or anything, for that matter) until they WANT to believe.
All we can do is to live the life we believe should be living, and if someone else sees a spark that they want in their life, too; then we can share what we believe.
The parable of the wheat and the tares pretty plainly says that there will be wheat and there will be weeds, and I think that means that not every one will want to believe  in God.

As far as the idea that a person who does not believe in the hereafter is dangerous; that makes no sense to me either. We each have our character, regardless of our beliefs, and I truly think that there are people who do not believe in the hereafter that do their best to help others that they come across in life, and so it with no thought of any kind of a reward. 

Many religions have done more harm than good in the past but I think mostly these days they are now helping, whether it be for the needy or even giving people a purpose in life.


... That's all I have to say

Even though organized religion has simply become a money-maker in many aspects , there are still a lot of good people involved, who do really care about mankind, and try to help people when they can do it.
Of course, this is not confined to only religious people.We have many people who want this to be a better world, but still do not believe in a creator, for one reason or another.

I don't think our souls die when our physical bodies die. Like stated above, energy can never be destroyed and it must go somewhere. I do believe that people get stuck sometimes on earth when they die if the spirit is not fully released. I have seen and heard some strange things in my time.

Religion is meant to keep us on the right path to be better people, but some take it to an extreme and end up hurting people instead. I think about the Westboro Baptist church that sends it's members around to protest funerals and other ceremonies. How could religious people think it is a good thing to male others suffer? God teaches us to love everyone even if we do not agree with how they live their lives.

After having been on the side of religion being a good thing overall; I am really beginning to wonder about that and re-think things here.
While I am always a believer in a divine God,and feel that spirituality is an important part of life; what we are seeing happen in the world today, and driven by religious fervor, has been a terrible thing.

It seems to me that people, especially in the more uneducated countries of the world, blindly follow their religious leaders, and don't even try to discover what they truly believe. 
We have the Muslims who want to kill all of the Christians, and the Jews, or any person who is not a Muslim, or willing to convert to the Islamic  faith .
We have the continuing fight between Israel and the surrounding countries over Jerusalem. 
Not so much now, as in the years past, we have had the fanatical Christian groups who burned abortion clinics, and beat up gay people, all in the name of following God, and doing His will.
Probably, even if we didn't have any kinds of organized religion, the rulers of each country would still find ways to make people believe that they need to fight and kill each other; however, organized religion certainly does make it a whole lot easier to control the masses.

There are deffinately some people who follow a religion blindly or because their country has decided that they must follow the beliefs of a religion. Some people so desperately want miracles to happen to them that they will believe anything that they hear just because it seems to be better than the world that they live in at the present.

In order to be a spiritual and religious person, you really do have to trust what you believe and own what you believe in. It is interesting to hear the opinions of those who are practially forced to be a part of a religion for fear that they will be shunned if they do not follow that religion.

I have been watching the Right Wing Dominionist chrispies getting pushier and nastier every day. 21 states have adopted and passed these so-laws that allow chrispies to discriminate against anyone that isn't a part of their vile cult. They have effectively declared war on not only the LGBT community...but they are going after Pagans now too. Lumping us all together as Satanists. I find that to be really fucked up and insulting because I don't believe in their bogey man...or their religion.  I do believe that if the rest of us who are anything other than christian or muslim don't rise up and fight back then we WILL end back in the Dark Ages and the burning times again. 

Wordee (11:17pm Mon, Aug  4, 2014)

My thinking: I so wish it were true.

I wish for god, or nirvana, any sort of enlightened state that tells me what is right and wrong and how to respond to any situation. Unfortunately, I believe that most religions have been perverted to turn a profit, it is hard to find true wisdom these days, therefore, I am always analyzing my decisions.

I try always to make "the decision I will least regret", but I think it is a better way to live, questioning my choices than looking to a religion to answer those questions for me. Yet....I yearn for the certainty of belief and community many of my religious friends have.

It is so hard to say, I think I'll be spending the rest of my life contemplating this question...

The thing about that certainty that your religious friends have, it isn't really a certainty...it's just a hope.  NO religion has all the answers...they are all man-made and let's face it...humans have a hell of a historical track record of just getting shit dead wrong. So, anyone who thinks they have all the answers because of their religion is deluded.

At least you actually THINK before you act...and try to make the best decision possible. It's been my experience religious people neither think about nor analyse their decisions before they do anything because they base it on religious ideology. Just take a hard look at the world today and history shows the effects of religion based decisions.

All that being said, it sounds like the only thing you may need to avoid doing is over-analysing your thoughts and decisions.