Upon arguing with my friend I thought I would take the debate here....

Is suicide selfish? Why? Why not?

To a certain extent, sure. On one hand, it implies that the person is hurting all of their loved ones and doesn't care. They're leaving behind the living to deal with the consequences of their death (both emotionally and physically with their belongings, finances, etc).

On the other hand, though, it's not usually intended to hurt others. It's the only way that person can see an end to all of their pain and suffering. They're not doing it to hurt those other people (and they often take action to minimize how much their loved ones have to deal with)....they're doing it because it's what they feel like they need to do and sometimes it's even because they think it would make other people's lives better.

Man you took the words out of my mouth!!

I think it's completely selfish because just like you said...death happens to everyone you leave behind not you. You're leaving a pile of shit for everyone else to deal with.

My friend argued that it's selfish for someone to expect someone to stay around suffering with no way out....but I for one would NEVER want someone to suffer and would be trying to help them so I don't know what sort of people they're around .

Yes, I think it's selfish, because the people who are left behind are bound to feel responsible for their death. I also think suicide is the coward's way out. There is always a way to deal with stuff, but it's harder to stay around and do that than to take the easy way out and leave others to deal with the mess you leave behind.

Gaah curse my bleeding heart but I think I'm growing some sort of sympathy for those who have....but then again.

Problem is there are a few people close to me who think that suicide is an act of revenge on others and a way of getting attention....so I guess you could understand how frustrating it is for me.



Now if someone is actually suffering that is a bit different in that they somewhat should have some sympathy but at the same time it's still selfish to me. I don't know. I feel angry and sympathetic at the same time.

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Now if someone is actually suffering that is a bit different in that they somewhat should have some sympathy

I really can't think of many situations where people would go so far as to *successfully* commit suicide and not actually be suffering. Yes, there are times where attempted suicide is a way of trying to get attention. Many of those people are clearly suffering as well, but there's something to be said for the side of some youngsters who don't understand the consequences of their actions there.

I don't think that the vast majority of people who follow through with suicide have any intentions of doing it as revenge, though.

Hopefully not, it's very silly and you'd not win in the end lol.

Nope. People who kill themselves are not intending to be selfish. They are seriously troubled, hurt, and hopeless. When I am suicidal, I have reasons for it. I don't want to kill myself because I want to be selfish. Most people who kill themselves know that they have no one that will care anyway. And that is what makes it easier for them. If no one will know that you are dead, no one will care that you are dead, or if they are even happy that you are dead, it's not hurting anyone.

It's easy for people who don't go through horrible unjust things constantly to judge people who kill himself, but really they have no right to. I wish everyone had to walk in their shoes before judging them. Maybe go through their abuses and traumas over the years and then have to be criticized themselves for having issues that people suffer with. Then maybe they would understand.

I could see why people would think that suicide is selfish, but if someone is so miserable that they literally want to kill themselves, isn't it selfish to tell them that they have to stick it out for other people. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, it's a long term answer to a short term problem. Still, shouldn't we have basic human rights, like the right to die so should we choose.

HuggsX3 (06:49pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

When I am suicidal, I have reasons for it. I don't want to kill myself because I want to be selfish.

I don't think anyone WANTS to be selfish, it's just that the action is selfish.


As for walking in others shoes and judging that makes sense. I tend to judge actions/behaviors as opposed to people so I would never say the person is horrible or selfish for doing it, just that they did a selfish thing.

ipmillar9937 (09:12pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

I could see why people would think that suicide is selfish, but if someone is so miserable that they literally want to kill themselves, isn't it selfish to tell them that they have to stick it out for other people. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, it's a long term answer to a short term problem. Still, shouldn't we have basic human rights, like the right to die so should we choose.

They should stick it out for themselves .

ipmillar9937 (09:12pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

I could see why people would think that suicide is selfish, but if someone is so miserable that they literally want to kill themselves, isn't it selfish to tell them that they have to stick it out for other people. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, it's a long term answer to a short term problem. Still, shouldn't we have basic human rights, like the right to die so should we choose.

Thank you. Yes, we should. It is selfish for people to force others to suffer. They have no idea what people are dealing with. Especially old people who are bedridden, in mass amounts of of pain, can't even think straight, and have no one who loves them. They have to live in a hospital and deal with people bringing them back to life when all the want is to be free of their body.

Also, some people have things are aren't a short time problem. Most people kill themselves over long term problems that they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives. Very few suicides are rash decisions. They are often thought out for a LONG time. Humiliation is one example of where people will kill themselves rashly.

Bunny (11:31pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

HuggsX3 (06:49pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

When I am suicidal, I have reasons for it. I don't want to kill myself because I want to be selfish.

I don't think anyone WANTS to be selfish, it's just that the action is selfish.


As for walking in others shoes and judging that makes sense. I tend to judge actions/behaviors as opposed to people so I would never say the person is horrible or selfish for doing it, just that they did a selfish thing.

ipmillar9937 (09:12pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

I could see why people would think that suicide is selfish, but if someone is so miserable that they literally want to kill themselves, isn't it selfish to tell them that they have to stick it out for other people. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, it's a long term answer to a short term problem. Still, shouldn't we have basic human rights, like the right to die so should we choose.

They should stick it out for themselves .

I think if no one really cares about them at all and it's not affecting anyone else, it's not selfish. I can see how when people love someone and they kill themselves they take it as selfish. I was pretty upset when my friend hung herself because I didn't think her reasons were enough to hurt so many people. (It was supposedly about grades.) I know she wasn't in the right frame of mind when she did it, and there were probably other things in her head too. Who knows, maybe someone did something really bad to hurt her that we don't know about and she snapped. I would get mad and think it was selfish. I feel like that should have been prevented, so I am more sad for her than anything.

I remember being so depressed at one point, that the only possible way to stop it was to cease existing. I thought about it, an thought about it, and thought about it. Eventually i grabbed a knife and went into the bathroom. I stared at myself in the mirror and realized that i didn't really want to die. Some girl hurt my feelings and i was feeling so sorry for myself, i let my self spiral into depression. the same thing happened to me a year ago. I've decided to look at life in a new way. i abandoned my ridiculous religion and set out to become the best i could be. With a genius level IQ sense grade school, my best attribute is unarguably my intelligence. I've been sharpening it ever sense, and take very little time to look to the past or future anymore. Life's good. Wu Wei

Suicide is very selfish. I understand everyone has and goes through problems. Life is full of ups and downs. I also believe that there is nothing that is so bad in someone's life that they need to take their own life. No one is unloved. I believe everyone has someone that loves them. It can be family, friends, acquaintances or significant others. There are different types of love and yet, it is still a source of love. It brings a tear to my eye when I hear of people committing suicide. I wish that I could be there for every person that is said and needs to talk to someone. You are able to see the signs and sometimes you can not. When you take your own life, you not only take away a special gift, but hurt others around you. The people whom love you will hurt the most. They must now live feeling guilty. They will always blame themselves for not having done enough. It is just not fair. If anyone ever feels like committing suicide, talk to someone and seek help. Taking your life is not the answer. On the contrary, it means you failed and your problems got the best of you.

You can't just assume that everyone has some one that loves them. A friend of mine, who's much better now, but was an emotional wreck when i had met him, was adopted. His mother tried to kill him and his sister, so he was put into a foster home. He moved around and eventually stopped when he was adopted. His adopted father doesn't like him, and got him as a part of a package deal with his sister. I guess he has his sister, and now he has his adopted mother, but for a while, he had no one.

deebee (11:12am Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

Suicide is very selfish. I understand everyone has and goes through problems. Life is full of ups and downs. I also believe that there is nothing that is so bad in someone's life that they need to take their own life. No one is unloved. I believe everyone has someone that loves them. It can be family, friends, acquaintances or significant others. There are different types of love and yet, it is still a source of love. It brings a tear to my eye when I hear of people committing suicide. I wish that I could be there for every person that is said and needs to talk to someone. You are able to see the signs and sometimes you can not. When you take your own life, you not only take away a special gift, but hurt others around you. The people whom love you will hurt the most. They must now live feeling guilty. They will always blame themselves for not having done enough. It is just not fair. If anyone ever feels like committing suicide, talk to someone and seek help. Taking your life is not the answer. On the contrary, it means you failed and your problems got the best of you.

Why are you assuming that everyone is loved? Are you kidding me right now? You have NO idea what it is like for other people. There are people being beaten, raped, and tortured everyday by their own family. You think that's love? I think not. There are homeless children with no one at all who end up getting kidnapped and thrown into prostitution on rings and get charged with felonies. Almost all adults who commit suicide had a very traumatic childhood with no one who loves them. You have no idea what the world is really like for people. You end up getting arrested if you are young and homeless. You get arrested from running away from abuse. You get thrown in hospitals and all kinds of fun places for being screwed up when it's not even your fault. What they do to you only makes it worse. Sometimes people get into drugs to cope with their trauma and pain. Then are labeled as bad. People who don't do drugs are also labeled as bad for being rejected and not being able to function properly from the way they were raised. I could go on for years about this. Open your eyes.

ipmillar9937 (04:35pm Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

You can't just assume that everyone has some one that loves them. A friend of mine, who's much better now, but was an emotional wreck when i had met him, was adopted. His mother tried to kill him and his sister, so he was put into a foster home. He moved around and eventually stopped when he was adopted. His adopted father doesn't like him, and got him as a part of a package deal with his sister. I guess he has his sister, and now he has his adopted mother, but for a while, he had no one.

Thank you. I'm sorry for your friends. My father also tried to kill me. So I get it. I get SO angry when people think they understand people's problems when really they have NO freaking clue. To them, a problem is dealing with drama at school. To others, a problem is staying alive in your own home.

deebee (11:12am Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

Suicide is very selfish. I understand everyone has and goes through problems. Life is full of ups and downs. I also believe that there is nothing that is so bad in someone's life that they need to take their own life. No one is unloved. I believe everyone has someone that loves them. It can be family, friends, acquaintances or significant others. There are different types of love and yet, it is still a source of love. It brings a tear to my eye when I hear of people committing suicide. I wish that I could be there for every person that is said and needs to talk to someone. You are able to see the signs and sometimes you can not. When you take your own life, you not only take away a special gift, but hurt others around you. The people whom love you will hurt the most. They must now live feeling guilty. They will always blame themselves for not having done enough. It is just not fair. If anyone ever feels like committing suicide, talk to someone and seek help. Taking your life is not the answer. On the contrary, it means you failed and your problems got the best of you.

"Nothing so bad in someones life that they need to take their own life." Seriously some people just don't get it.  Until you go through something horrible for years upon years and then have to deal with relieving it every single day and functioning then maybe you'll change your mind. Nobody that commits suicide is okay. My God. People don't understand what it is like to not be able to think straight and have your whole life ruined by something. Things actually do permanently affect people. And sometimes suicide is there only way to stay safe and guarantee more bad things won't happen to them anymore.

I am REALLY struggling to reply to this. So let me do this as best I can....

HuggsX3 (04:22pm Fri, Apr 12, 2013)

Thank you. Yes, we should. It is selfish for people to force others to suffer. They have no idea what people are dealing with. Especially old people who are bedridden, in mass amounts of of pain, can't even think straight, and have no one who loves them. They have to live in a hospital and deal with people bringing them back to life when all the want is to be free of their body.

When I said suicide I was not meaning to include people who are bedridden or in mass amounts of pain or circumstances like that. I was talking more about those who say depression is the cause.

NO ONE is so alone that no one loves them, or that no one is attracted to them. At this very moment there is a line of people just dying to meet you and spend time with you....you've just got to open your eyes and see it.

I'm not saying this without knowing it. I've been to the very edge of suicide and back, too scared to actively try (thank god)....and I've seen others walk up to that edge, trail it for years, and fly away....or fall off it. I've suffered depression for most of my life, on and off, and it's the worst feeling ever. It truly is. I've self mutilated, I've hated myself and my life, everything.

But never once would I try to commit suicide because the people I cared about so much would be hurt...and I couldn't stand thinking of them hurting. I would sooner call a hospital to come and get me than to actually do it...and I've gotten to that point once I do admit. It was an incredibly rough time for me.

Anyway my point is that those people you see as forcing you to suffer, are the people who value you and your life enough to try to help you feel better and start to value and enjoy it too! I would be happy to have people like that in my life.

HuggsX3 (04:22pm Fri, Apr 12, 2013)

Also, some people have things are aren't a short time problem. Most people kill themselves over long term problems that they will have to deal with for the rest of their lives. Very few suicides are rash decisions. They are often thought out for a LONG time. Humiliation is one example of where people will kill themselves rashly.

Humiliation? Seriously? Move town, move country, don't kill yourself over what a bunch of idiots think. Make up for the shit you do and you'll feel better. We all do shameful things sometimes, and things can be fixed or you can remove yourself from the situation without killing yourself. Sorry if that's harsh.

ipmillar9937 (05:42pm Fri, Apr 12, 2013)

I remember being so depressed at one point, that the only possible way to stop it was to cease existing. I thought about it, an thought about it, and thought about it. Eventually i grabbed a knife and went into the bathroom. I stared at myself in the mirror and realized that i didn't really want to die. Some girl hurt my feelings and i was feeling so sorry for myself, i let my self spiral into depression. the same thing happened to me a year ago. I've decided to look at life in a new way. i abandoned my ridiculous religion and set out to become the best i could be. With a genius level IQ sense grade school, my best attribute is unarguably my intelligence. I've been sharpening it ever sense, and take very little time to look to the past or future anymore. Life's good. Wu Wei

GOOD ON YOU!!!

HuggsX3 (08:56pm Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

Why are you assuming that everyone is loved? Are you kidding me right now? You have NO idea what it is like for other people. There are people being beaten, raped, and tortured everyday by their own family. You think that's love? I think not. There are homeless children with no one at all who end up getting kidnapped and thrown into prostitution on rings and get charged with felonies. Almost all adults who commit suicide had a very traumatic childhood with no one who loves them. You have no idea what the world is really like for people. You end up getting arrested if you are young and homeless. You get arrested from running away from abuse. You get thrown in hospitals and all kinds of fun places for being screwed up when it's not even your fault. What they do to you only makes it worse. Sometimes people get into drugs to cope with their trauma and pain. Then are labeled as bad. People who don't do drugs are also labeled as bad for being rejected and not being able to function properly from the way they were raised. I could go on for years about this. Open your eyes.

Woah!! Jesus.

EVERYONE is loved lots of people are too blinded by themselves or their shit to see it.

You know what? I don't think I've admitted this online....but I was raped, by someone I loved very much. I justified it to myself as he loved me and wanted to show me love....but in the end he raped me. He took my virginity without asking and I was left there feeling numb and dead. I was also sexually abused by a doctor when I was younger and I still have nightmares about that.

I am still in therapy for that and a BROARD range of other shit ranging from every single kind of bullying, domestic violence, and more. I'm fucked up. I have issues. But I'm working to make shit better and every day I take a step forward. I was diagnosed with a bone disease in my spine as well, so now I spend every waking moment in pain, and some days the pain is so bad I can't fucking function. It's hard to get out of bed and sometimes I just don't make it.

I'm not saying this because I think that because I can everyone can. I'm saying this because I'm a fucking bleeding heart, and I can't stand to see others in pain and I want to help them. I want everyone to be happy, and sometimes you've got to get through the darkness to get there!

HuggsX3 (08:59pm Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

ipmillar9937 (04:35pm Wed, Apr 17, 2013)

You can't just assume that everyone has some one that loves them. A friend of mine, who's much better now, but was an emotional wreck when i had met him, was adopted. His mother tried to kill him and his sister, so he was put into a foster home. He moved around and eventually stopped when he was adopted. His adopted father doesn't like him, and got him as a part of a package deal with his sister. I guess he has his sister, and now he has his adopted mother, but for a while, he had no one.

Thank you. I'm sorry for your friends. My father also tried to kill me. So I get it. I get SO angry when people think they understand people's problems when really they have NO freaking clue. To them, a problem is dealing with drama at school. To others, a problem is staying alive in your own home.

That's fucking sick. Sorry for your troubles, but you do have people who love you. I love your poetry, sue me. I'm going to like you more and more as I talk to you and there's nothing you can do about it. Maybe we will become friends, maybe not....but I would be heartbroken if someone told me you were done.

I was almost put into a foster home because of the abuse I was suffering too, but luckily I was rescued by my mother.

If you asked me to fight for your life I would fight for it so hard you have no idea. Please don't take that as creepy as it sounds ha ha.

I have tried to kill myself. I was not aware of what I was actually doing. I saw a short term problem as the end of the world and thought the only way around it was to end my life. I was unaware of who I was hurting as I did this because all I saw was the end of the world. I was taking the extreme action of ending my existence (which is permanent, mind you) based only on what I thought I wanted, without taking others into account. That, I believe, is selfishishness

In the end, I am glad I could not successfully kill myself. I have never tried to do it again after that.

Now, if someone is terminally ill and in great pain and just wants their suffering to be over quicker, I don't think that's selfish.

I am so blunt, sorry if I upset anyone! I love you guys and don't wanna upset anyone.

I believe suicide is an individual's own preference, so to say it is selfish is subjective. Even though I personally do not believe in committing suicide for myself, I cannot claim to know what other people are experiencing in their life. In certain circumstances, committing suicide can be selfish; for example, if a parent leaves behind his/her spouse or children because he/she couldn't handle living anymore. However, if a person has no family and nobody who cares, and that person has a terminal illness, then I would not necessarily say that person as being selfish by committing that act. However, in most cases, suicide is not the answer!

Wow. Lots of emotion in this one.

I don't think most people who haven't had the gun forcibly removed from their hands really do understand suicide, and they do consider it selfish. Sure, lots of people get to the edge, and many, whether consciously or unconsciously, stage it so that they can and probably will survive; that's a cry for help. The successes...well, those are the ones who meant it, and in my opinion, they probably are better off. People who truly intend to commit suicide succeed as a general rule, and it comes as an enormous surprise to those around them. You hear a lot of, "Oh, he seemed so grounded! So happy!" It seems obvious to me that people who can both claim to be so surprised, and claim to have been so close to the person have to be lying on one point or the other. I suppose they could think they were close, though.

I disagree that there's always some other solution. Talking to someone isn't always an option, and it is almost never enough to resolve the issue. Life just isn't like that, as much as we'd love for it to be. Sometimes the people we reach out to immediately try to soothe us and say, "Oh, it's not that bad. You'll feel differently in a day or two." From personal experience, that's the LAST thing a potential suicide needs to hear. It utterly marginalizes their feelings, makes light of the problem. I get the same kicked in the stomach feeling when I read people here saying, "Oh, EVERYONE has someone," because it really isn't true, and blaming the person who's feeling isolated by saying they just have to open up to it, mmm..yeah, that's productive. Let's marginalize and judge someone who has nothing much to live for already, shall we?

That said, I agree that problems that seem huge often are not, when viewed from a distance of a few days or a few weeks. And sometimes those problems that seem huge (and may BE huge) might have a resolution if one just reaches out to another. But when you're caught up in the midst of the drama that seems small to others, it's hard to know who you can reach out to, who you can trust. Often, there's no one, and you have to choose whether it's going to be worth toughing it out.

Teen suicides piss me off, though, because adults have a really strong tendency to laugh off a teen's issues. We survived high school, we went through the bullying, we came out stronger, maybe. Or maybe we didn't. More likely, we just have the padding and scar tissue that time provided to soften our view of what went on. Teens are vicious to each other, and adults are sometimes vicious to teens without even realizing it. In the US today, generally teens who are bullied get punished for standing up for themselves, and since the punishment is no real deterrent for the bully, the behavior continues, often with the same victims. Who do they reach out to? Parents who tell them it will be all right? Teachers or counselors who tell them to report it, so they can get thrown out of school, too? Other teens, who are as likely to laugh and gossip as actually be supportive? These are the ones I wish there was more help for. But then, when I was in school, it was part of growing up to learn to fight your own battles, and unless you were a nobody who mixed it up with an athlete, you weren't punished for standing your ground and the bully was.

I'll put the soapbox away now, and close with this: Which of us has the right to force another to suffer for our convenience? None. So the answer, in my opinion, is yes, suicide is a selfish act committed by someone who is in unimaginable pain, and yes, the people who would force the person in pain to live just so they didn't have to deal with the aftermath are equally selfish.

I believe suicide to be a selfish act because no matter what it is you are escaping from, you are leaving everyone you know behind to pick up the pieces and deal with what you've done, likely for their rest of THEIR lives. 

This is a very touchy subject for me. My father hung himself when I was 7 years old. Being that young, I didn't really understand why he'd want to leave me and my brother. As I got old, I realized nobody would ever know why. I find it very selfish, as there are many others ways to get help with how they're feeling. They instead choose to just quit altogether and leave their loved ones behind. I love my father, and would never speak ill of him, but I do find his act incredibly selfish.

Raivyn (04:08pm Mon, Jul 29, 2013)

This is a very touchy subject for me. My father hung himself when I was 7 years old. Being that young, I didn't really understand why he'd want to leave me and my brother. As I got old, I realized nobody would ever know why. I find it very selfish, as there are many others ways to get help with how they're feeling. They instead choose to just quit altogether and leave their loved ones behind. I love my father, and would never speak ill of him, but I do find his act incredibly selfish.

I think that if nobody will ever know why, nobody can say for sure that there were any other ways for him to get help. I don't know your circumstances, let alone his, but as I said above, there isn't always a ready solution, and there isn't always someone to talk to. Maybe he didn't want to leave you. I'm sure that's what you've been told all your life, and most likely it's true. It isn't about escaping a family member (usually). It's a personal solution. It isn't about anyone else in the family (and I suppose that's what makes it selfish to some), but really, I think there's something inherently evil about someone who believes that another person should ALWAYS think of other people first.

I just think it's incredibly selfish to force someone to suffer for our convenience, so we don't have to see or clean up the mess, so we don't have to deal with their messy affairs, so we don't have to wonder what we might have done differently.

Trace (04:28pm Mon, Jul 29, 2013)

Raivyn (04:08pm Mon, Jul 29, 2013)

This is a very touchy subject for me. My father hung himself when I was 7 years old. Being that young, I didn't really understand why he'd want to leave me and my brother. As I got old, I realized nobody would ever know why. I find it very selfish, as there are many others ways to get help with how they're feeling. They instead choose to just quit altogether and leave their loved ones behind. I love my father, and would never speak ill of him, but I do find his act incredibly selfish.

I think that if nobody will ever know why, nobody can say for sure that there were any other ways for him to get help. I don't know your circumstances, let alone his, but as I said above, there isn't always a ready solution, and there isn't always someone to talk to. Maybe he didn't want to leave you. I'm sure that's what you've been told all your life, and most likely it's true. It isn't about escaping a family member (usually). It's a personal solution. It isn't about anyone else in the family (and I suppose that's what makes it selfish to some), but really, I think there's something inherently evil about someone who believes that another person should ALWAYS think of other people first.

I just think it's incredibly selfish to force someone to suffer for our convenience, so we don't have to see or clean up the mess, so we don't have to deal with their messy affairs, so we don't have to wonder what we might have done differently.

Maybe I have things completely out of order, but a parent should always put their children first. Just a thought, though. I could be horribly wrong. I don't suppose anybody who's never experienced the suicide of a loved one would much understand why it seems so selfish.

Raivyn (01:54am Tue, Jul 30, 2013)

Maybe I have things completely out of order, but a parent should always put their children first. Just a thought, though. I could be horribly wrong. I don't suppose anybody who's never experienced the suicide of a loved one would much understand why it seems so selfish.

I can't speak to parental concerns, since I'm not one, but being on both ends of the suicide question, I think I have a pretty solid understanding of the emotions on both sides. I don't blame the one I lost, nor do I feel any resentment, other than the selfish one on my part that he's not in my life anymore. I guess the difference is in how different people handle loss. Not saying any one way is better, only that they're all different.

Two years ago my sister overdosed on oxycontin and died.  Her situation was such that she was unable to work, unable to walk far distances and lived with constant unbearable pain.  She weighed over three hundred pounds and was denied the right to get gastric bypass because she failed the stress test.  She was also manic-depressive and hated taking her medicine. She had a very hard childhood which I won't get into but her flashbacks were devastating to her. 

My opinion is that you cannot lump all suicides into one group and classify them as selfish.  In my sister's case, she just couldn't take both the physical and emotional pain and so decided that she was ready to go.  You can't compare a situation like that to someone who just had a bad day and shoots himself.  The outcome seems the same in that the friends and families are devastated but the cause is what should be considered before classifying the act as selfish.

fibromama (10:58am Tue, Aug 13, 2013)

My opinion is that you cannot lump all suicides into one group and classify them as selfish.

I think this is one of the best points made in this discussion to date. Most folks here seem to be basing their classification of "selfish" as being based on the survivors and their wants or needs, and fail to consider the needs of the person considering or completing the act.

Whenever faced with this debate, I have always said that there is no way that you can ever tell what is going on in somebody's mind unless you have actually walked in their shoes and understand what they're feeling like at the exact time that the make the decision to take their own life.

From somebody who has never been in that position, it is very easy to say that people who commit suicide are taking the easy way out and leaving their friends and family to cope alone, but they may well only be doing that because of the fact that they genuinely feel that it is the only way to end what they're feeling.

The majority of people who kill themselves are suffering from some kind of mental illness, meaning that you can't possibly judge them by the same kinds of standards as you would judge people who were in sound mind. Although not an excuse for everything, mental illness tends to take people right into their own heads, and that's where they remain until they get the help and clarity to be taken back to reality. Sometimes that happens, and people can become happy with who they are again, but sometimes, tragically, people just never get the help that they need.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/castro-phone-berry-mother-wife-report-article-1.1447653

This man got off too easy.

First things first, I think it depends on the situation. I would think suicide is selfish if the person has family to take care of. On the other hand, suicide may be the best way to say goodbye to the world because it has done more harmful than good to him or her. It also depends on how the person thinks about suicidal because everyone has their reasons.

Is it selfish to want to stop hurting your family everyday because of your issues? The way some who commit suicide see it, they are actually helping their families, by removing a problem that doesn't appear to have a solution. They think that by removing themselves they allow their family to move forward.

I see this from both sides. I have had family members and friends commit suicide and have attempted it more than once myself.

I wrote a response to this topic but it ended up being 1.5k words.
In the interest of not making a text wall that impresses the ancient Chinese and takes days to scroll by, I blew the dust off of my LJ account and have posted it there.
http://lorexick.livejournal.com/539.html

I wrote it up in I don't know how long and on enough caffeine to move a sloth so it might be a little eclectic. Please let me know if I wasn't clear at any point.

Suicide is definitely an emotional topic and I don't know if I'm comfortable with talking about it.  Suicide is uncomfortable, nothing good about suicide.  Murder-suicide is definitely selfish; suicide I would say is subjective and contextual like someone said before.  I remember the first time I walked out onto the Golden Gate Bridge and saw the suicide help phone; I researched suicide statistics when I came home and found out that it is the most popular place to do it or at least it was at the time.  Some people feel like they are more of a burden on those around them than they are a help, some people are just plain crazy, some people are in pain.  I remember in the late eighties when Kavorkian [spl?] emerged as a valid option for the elderly.  I think assisted suicide is legal in the Netherlands.  This type of thing could preserve the dignity of the elderly, but isn't it actually murder. I've read that some tribes leave the old ones on the ice to die if they can no longer walk.  I don't know about suicide.  I've never had the balls to pull the trigger.  It does take a determined individual to go through with it and in a way that shows a sense of strength and conviction.  The most selfish type of suicide that is the kind that lasts for years and is not isolated to a particular event.  For instance an abusive person that tortures and aggravates all the people around them, only burning bridges and destroying relationships while they slowly drink or drug themselves into oblivion. Is this type of self destructive behavior not also suicide?  When I hear about a suicide it always leaves me a little sad, but when I hear about a failed suicide attempt that leaves somebody crippled for life it makes me sadder and truly takes from the lives of those around or people that have to pay the medical bills.  I do find however that people that have failed at a suicide and not maimed themselves into incoherence can bounce back and live productive lives.

Ooh this is such a tricky topic because there are two very different points of view to consider, the one on the outside looking in trying to make sense of suicide, and the ones who are suffering so badly they lose the will to live. I mean some people who have been suicidal and are still living today know both sides of this and you can only ever truly understand how difficult and painful it can be if you have been there yourself. I've suffered with depression on and off and I'm just grateful that there is always something that pulls me out of it because if I felt like that ALL the time I wouldn't want to live either.
I have seen several suicides in the family members and close friends of people close to me, and a few unsuccessful attempts as well, and it is beyond heartbreaking and very hard to understand or even accept especially if you have no clue what its like to be depressed and suffering. In that case of course you would think its selfish because all you know is what its like to be the person left behind grieving.
I think people need to let go of whether its selfish or not and just understand that it feels like the only way out for some people, unfortunately.
I suppose the lesson in this for all of us is that if you think someone is suffering and you have been avoiding asking them or trying to help, out of fear, well maybe just let them know that they are cared about and loved and that they do have people who would care if anything should happen to them. I'm not saying take on their burdens, I'm just saying reach out in any way you think you can so they know they are not alone. Prevention is the best way to avoid that heartbreak of losing someone and no matter how uncomfortable it will be to confront somebody or gently try to encourage them to share their feelings, its got to better than the pain of losing them right?

Yes it is for the simple reason that you are dead, so any impact it has on you doesn't matter (you aren't around to feel/experience it) however, those that care and love you are impacted, sometime severely.

In the worst case, you make a coroner do extra work.  Won't someone think about the coroner.

Or maybe the coroner was up for review that day and was going to be made redundant, but you were just enough work at just the right time to keep them in a job.
S'all perspective you know.
(wow that sounded mean and dark)

Dant (06:55am Thu, Nov 28, 2013)

Or maybe the coroner was up for review that day and was going to be made redundant, but you were just enough work at just the right time to keep them in a job.
S'all perspective you know.
(wow that sounded mean and dark)

There's always work for coroners. 

Haffina (02:06am Thu, Nov 21, 2013)

Is it selfish to want to stop hurting your family everyday because of your issues? The way some who commit suicide see it, they are actually helping their families, by removing a problem that doesn't appear to have a solution. They think that by removing themselves they allow their family to move forward.

I see this from both sides. I have had family members and friends commit suicide and have attempted it more than once myself.

I would say yes, because now there's a lifetime of hurt and a hole that can never be fixed. At least your issues could possibly be fixed if you're alive.

You could distance yourself from them if you truly felt that way, instead of removing yourself from the earth.

Misspittypat (10:34am Mon, Nov 25, 2013)

Ooh this is such a tricky topic because there are two very different points of view to consider, the one on the outside looking in trying to make sense of suicide, and the ones who are suffering so badly they lose the will to live.

Sort of. I've been on both sides and I have seen how it's affected those around me. Last year I became homeless (with no ability to pay for any sort of home), my schooling was overwhelming (I had 6 major assignments to do in 2 weeks, they were 30 page type things and all had presentations to go with too, all because my USB was stollen and my backup was wiped by accident), my mother had been rushed to the ER 9 times in a month and each time was literally on her death bed (in fact the first time she went my sister called me crying hysterically (she's 12 and living in America) telling me mum was dead, she wasn't breathing, and had been like that for some time), my boyfriend had had some really serious family stuff happening and I was unable to reach him at all, and various other family members were unwell with cancer or heart conditions (1 cancer 3 heart) which I had just found out, my best friend had died, and a slew of other shit. I told my brother I didn't want to live anymore. I was sitting at a train station crying. I hadn't stopped crying all day. The stress of my life was so overwhelming I was having upwards of 4 anxiety attacks per day and I had suffered through this for weeks.

My brother came out and spent some time with me, took me out for pizza, and took me home. He kept trying to tell me jokes to cheer me up but they weren't helping (they registered as funny, but my body didn't react). I found out from my mother that when he got home he cried on the phone to her for 4 hours straight because he couldn't even get me to smile at all and he didn't recognise me.

So, even though I just didn't want to live anymore, and I was suffering for a long time, if I had committed suicide I would definitely have been selfish.

Anyway, I'm still here now, what ended up happening was I broke down in class having an anxiety attack and my class took me to see the course co-ordinator who knew of my situation but not my inability to cope with it, and they withdrew me from one of my classes which I am repeating now, because that was the class that gave me the most stress. It didn't set me back at all either. Also, I did manage to finish all the assignments and I got all high distinctions in the end, and one pass because I failed to hand that one assignment in lol.

And I never want to get that low again and am determined not to! I know not every story ends like this, but yeah.

ipmillar9937 (09:12pm Wed, Apr 10, 2013)

I could see why people would think that suicide is selfish, but if someone is so miserable that they literally want to kill themselves, isn't it selfish to tell them that they have to stick it out for other people. I'm not saying suicide is the answer, it's a long term answer to a short term problem. Still, shouldn't we have basic human rights, like the right to die so should we choose.

I agree with the bolded part, and this whole post actually.

Frankly, I think it's selfish to call those who have attempted or completed suicide selfish, because anybody who wants to live enough to complain about how much somebody else dying will leave a mess...is far more privileged than someone who just wants to die.

Considering that imbalance, the judgment of selfishness itself (on a suicidal person) is far more selfish to make than the act that the statement is condemning.

How does the judgment, "You only want to kill yourself because you're selfish" help? It's so astronomically unlikely that a suicidal person will go, "You're right, I have been so selfish and will think enough about others that I will just naturally want to live again." It doesn't usually work that way.

And who does that really help? Not the one who needs it.

Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. That if my favorite quote about suicide because it is really true.
In my opinion I would say suicide is selfish because like I said it is (obviously) permanent and something those around you have to live with for the rest of their lives. It will also make them feel like they should have done differently.

Have any of you read the new collection of essays and historical perspectives on suicide, Stay?

In a sense it is. I don't, however, think it is nearly as selfish as the "loved ones" who do everything in their power (including calling the authorities on these poor souls) to have them stick around and suffer.

bsthebenster (07:59pm Thu, Jul 10, 2014)

In a sense it is. I don't, however, think it is nearly as selfish as the "loved ones" who do everything in their power (including calling the authorities on these poor souls) to have them stick around and suffer.

While it might even seem to people who are not the suicidal person, and not even in the relationship, that the family and loved ones are long-suffering for someone who is selfish...the more likely fact is that there was something in the home situation that triggered and cultivated suicidal ideations in the suicidal individual.

"Loved ones" are likely to act out against what seems bad (suicide attempts, cutting or eating disorders) but at the same time in other, more important ways, would rather dig their heels in than provide simple adjustments to their behavior that create real solutions for everybody. That requires some serious self-examination of if or when they have been abusive and just didn't notice it.

theodora (04:47pm Wed, Jul  9, 2014)

Have any of you read the new collection of essays and historical perspectives on suicide, Stay?

That sounds really interesting. I will have to look into those!

In my eyes, suicide is a way people think will get rid of their pain and suffering but it is selfish, they don't think about how it will effect their loved ones and how much better/happier they could be if they got help and didn't let it swoop that low that they even question doing it.

Suicide is not the answer for your problems, its not even a last resort, there is ALWAYS a way to overcome whats happening to you in your life and I'm sorry for those we have lost who couldn't see that help wasn't that far away, I believe they are in a better place but you must remember not to let yourself go through something like that.....

Don't think about it, think about solving your problems and if your struggling with that, step away from what is causing you so much pain